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Author Topic: Plusnet Low & High cost area  (Read 22951 times)

kitz

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Re: Plusnet Low & High cost area
« Reply #30 on: January 07, 2016, 12:07:00 AM »

no..   it wasnt a poke at you.

It was an ironic laugh..  ie your mention of plenty of other ISPs.   
The fact is now there are far less choice and ISPs than before OFCOM started poking their noses in areas supposedly to encourage diversity and choice.   Its had the opposite effect and now there is comparatively very little choice. :(
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Chrysalis

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Re: Plusnet Low & High cost area
« Reply #31 on: January 07, 2016, 10:15:40 AM »

and the market has moved from 1 month contracts to 12/18/24 month contracts with a heavy push of voice services due to ofcom letting that get abused.

The line rental situation is the big flashing light to show ofcom dont care about consumers, but only what resellers can profit on.  Regulated wholesale pricing pinned down but retail pricing allowed to sky rocket.
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Oldjim

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Re: Plusnet Low & High cost area
« Reply #32 on: January 07, 2016, 02:05:55 PM »

@kitz
As you know far more about this than I do and as I was the main protagonist with ejs over at Plusnet Forums could you advise whether, from your knowledge, the price controls on Market A apply or don't to 21CN and FTTC
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sheephouse

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Re: Plusnet Low & High cost area
« Reply #33 on: January 07, 2016, 04:58:43 PM »

There are plenty of ISPs to choose from. If you feel it's wrong what's happening, then just go for it.
I live in a Market A area - what plusnet call High Cost. There are actually very few ISPs available to choose from - for example, TalkTalk refuse to supply phone or broadband, as do quite a few of the smaller ISPs too. Those that are available all cost the same (maybe +- 1 line rental) - the minimum price is set by Ofcom. Those of us in Market A areas pay far more for a poor service (ADSLMax Premium) than people in Market B area pay for FTTC.
Changing ISP, even if possible, doesn't solve the problem.
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gt94sss2

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Re: Plusnet Low & High cost area
« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2016, 05:21:38 PM »

I live in a Market A area - what plusnet call High Cost. There are actually very few ISPs available to choose from - for example, TalkTalk refuse to supply phone or broadband, as do quite a few of the smaller ISPs too. Those that are available all cost the same (maybe +- 1 line rental) - the minimum price is set by Ofcom. Those of us in Market A areas pay far more for a poor service (ADSLMax Premium) than people in Market B area pay for FTTC.
Changing ISP, even if possible, doesn't solve the problem.

You should have the choice of all ISP's who use BT Wholesale to provide their services (i..e carry their traffic) - the vast majority of ISPs.. most of who do not do location based charging.

What you won't have access too are those ISP's which use LLU connections such as TalkTalk and Sky (or their resellers) who have decided not to LLU your exchange despite it being made a more viable proposition for them (by the regulator making BTW charge a higher price)

« Last Edit: January 07, 2016, 05:26:10 PM by gt94sss2 »
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Weaver

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Re: Plusnet Low & High cost area
« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2016, 06:56:10 PM »

See ispreview.co.uk

One good one and one cheap one is a start.
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kitz

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Re: Plusnet Low & High cost area
« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2016, 10:14:06 PM »

@kitz
As you know far more about this than I do and as I was the main protagonist with ejs over at Plusnet Forums could you advise whether, from your knowledge, the price controls on Market A apply or don't to 21CN and FTTC


It applies to 21CN.   
FTTC IMHO is a grey area, because many of the cabs connect to a head end exchange which isnt necessarily the same exchange as PSTN and could have different Market ratings.  The local exchange could be Market A, yet the head end exchange could be market B where an ISP such as Sky could take the the dsl if they wanted because they have a presence there... but not the phone line to do Full MPF.  Ive seen price lists for the charging differences when it comes to 21CN but not for FTTC, but that isnt to say there isnt one for fttc.   

TBH I think the whole thing is now out dated and needs a total overhaul.   Too much has changed within the UK broadband industry since the last review.     There have been too many mergers which mean that things like "Four or more principal operators" for a market 3 exchange is a bit ridiculous and there isnt any clarification about fttc and use of head end exchanges.
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kitz

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Re: Plusnet Low & High cost area
« Reply #37 on: January 07, 2016, 10:17:13 PM »

Quote
Regulated wholesale pricing pinned down but retail pricing allowed to sky rocket.

This annoys me.   Even more of a ripoff is the cross subsidy between phone line and dsl.
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burakkucat

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Re: Plusnet Low & High cost area
« Reply #38 on: January 07, 2016, 11:08:43 PM »

FTTC IMHO is a grey area, because many of the cabs connect to a head end exchange which isnt necessarily the same exchange as PSTN and could have different Market ratings.  The local exchange could be Market A, yet the head end exchange could be market B where an ISP such as Sky could take the the dsl if they wanted because they have a presence there... but not the phone line to do Full MPF.

It is exactly that situation which is bugging N*Star and prompted him to start this thread. As he has previously mentioned his local telephony serving exchange and his fibre head end exchange in the open forum, then for a real-life example take a look at the Ofcom classifications of Helens Bay (telephony) and Bangor (fibre head end) in Northern Ireland.  :-\
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Chrysalis

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Re: Plusnet Low & High cost area
« Reply #39 on: January 07, 2016, 11:44:47 PM »

Well if you were to ask me would I have an issue if BTw became deregulated at those market 1 exchanges, I would say no.

That would probably only affect plusnet tho as all other isp's dont have regional pricing.
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kitz

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Re: Plusnet Low & High cost area
« Reply #40 on: January 08, 2016, 04:14:23 PM »

btw.   I found something interesting.

This is taken from the most recent WBC pricing and obviously on there is the cost of bandwidth for the EPs on the MSILs, but it also quotes the basic adsl components for EU monthly rental.   These particular components are usually the same regardless if its WBC or WMBC etc as they are the port costs on the MSAN/DSLAM at the exchange. 

I note that both market A and Market B are both 5.88.
According to the price list the FTTC port component is non geographic.
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ejs

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Re: Plusnet Low & High cost area
« Reply #41 on: January 08, 2016, 04:18:02 PM »

It applies to 21CN.   
FTTC IMHO is a grey area, because many of the cabs connect to a head end exchange which isnt necessarily the same exchange as PSTN and could have different Market ratings.  The local exchange could be Market A, yet the head end exchange could be market B where an ISP such as Sky could take the the dsl if they wanted because they have a presence there... but not the phone line to do Full MPF.  Ive seen price lists for the charging differences when it comes to 21CN but not for FTTC, but that isnt to say there isnt one for fttc.   

Why is it then that in the published WBC price list, the only difference between Market A and B is that the cease charge is zero in Market A, and there are no other differences? The WBMC Shared price list isn't published but I found one anyway, the only difference between Market A and B was for IPsC capacity.
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kitz

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Re: Plusnet Low & High cost area
« Reply #42 on: January 08, 2016, 04:42:25 PM »

It looks like they scrapped it at some point.   In which case then Plusnet shouldnt really be passing the fees on.

All indications now are that aside from some things such as the cease charge then there isnt any difference in pricing. - certainly not for the port cost.
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sheephouse

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Re: Plusnet Low & High cost area
« Reply #43 on: January 08, 2016, 04:50:27 PM »

You should have the choice of all ISP's who use BT Wholesale to provide their services (i..e carry their traffic) - the vast majority of ISPs.. most of who do not do location based charging.
Unfortunately that isn't the case.
A growing number of ISPs no longer provide any service at all for 20CN exchanges - which are commonly Market A.
Even those that don't do location based charging do charge a higher rate for 20CN - which is effectively the same thing as 20CN and Market A tend to be closely related.
For example, Sky will resell BT in non-LLU areas, and have a free broadband offer - unless you're on a 20CN exchange in which case they charge 17 pm. And they don't support ADSLMax Premium at any price.
I've been through almost the entire list at ISPReview, and there are no ISPs that are more than 1/month cheaper than Plusnet for ADSLMax Premium, and most are significantly more expensive if you want a fixed IP address and unlimited downloads.
And disregarding price there is no choice that would affect the quality of the connection as the backhaul is the same for all ISPs - there is effectively no choice.
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Weaver

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Re: Plusnet Low & High cost area
« Reply #44 on: January 08, 2016, 05:57:35 PM »

@sheephouse take a look at Andrews and Arnold and their Home::1T (Terabyte allowance) deal. Iirc this FTTC deal uses only TalkTalk Wholesale special backhaul, so that they can provide such a high traffic allowance at a half reasonable cost.

There are good ISPs out there, there is also BTW Premium for an extra 12 per line per month. (aka 'elevated' on 21CN iirc? Something like that.)
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