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Author Topic: ADSL Noisy line  (Read 4635 times)

gerrynp

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ADSL Noisy line
« on: December 23, 2015, 02:46:23 PM »

I have been following the thread started by aesmith regarding REIN testing and I have very similar problems, but with differences. (Incidentally I live about 20 miles from him,in an old farmhouse, a long way from the exchange and have probably had some of the same OR people as him!).
Our ISP (and the OR guys) all say that the line is OK physically but that it is very noisy.

We have a very unstable line and we are lucky to get 500kbs on a good day, our neighbours about 250m up the road and nearer to the exchange get 1500kbs fairly consistently. This is probably the best we could expect at 3.6miles from the exchange, our immediate neighbours (3 of) all have the same problem as we do so it seems to be something local to us. The common factor (apart from the phone line) is that we are all served from the same pole mounted transformer.

 I have tried RouterStatsLite and have got some results  but the line instabilities cause it to crash, see two attached traces.Before the drop the SNM is 23dB and the conection speed 480kbs, when it comes back the SNM is 17db and the connection speed 1536kbs. When the stats are recorded for a longer period the line reverts to 23db and around 480kbs quite quickly see the Dec21 trace.
I have done the MW radio tuned to 612kHz thing and find a lot of noise on the 240v mains incomer, the onset of this noise correlates with the SNM drop to zero on the traces. Because the noise onset is random (as far as I can tell) I have not staked out the transformer to see if it is the source, I can see it from the house but it would take me several minutes to get to it by which time the noise would probably have stopped!
Any ideas as to the best way forward would be much appreciated!
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Weaver

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Re: ADSL Noisy line
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2015, 03:30:09 PM »

What hardware are you using? Modem?

Are you wanting to try and sort the problem yourself or to get a good ISP to work through it for you?

There are a number of useful mains filtering devices around, but you suspect it's airborne interference?
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Weaver

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Re: ADSL Noisy line
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2015, 03:31:30 PM »

If you find these kinds of speeds intolerable, and have deep pockets, you could go for a bonded DSL solution which is what I have done myself.
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gerrynp

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Re: ADSL Noisy line
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2015, 04:19:49 PM »

I am currently using a ZyXEL P-660HW router (previously had a Netgear DG834Gv3 but that is now faulty and a Zyxel AMG1202 from the ISP). Only using this because RouterStatsLite works with it.
The noise on the mains incomer is picked up by the security lighting cable which runs along with it for about 3m and it gives a great signal at the light switch....!! I don't know if the phone line is picking this up  as it does not run close to the mains cable(or even parallel to it). The noise is intense at the CU which is about 2m from the router, so either airborne or down the mains cable would seem to be possible.
I could ask BT to relocate  the phone socket, but as this problem only started in May 2014 (we had slow but workable BB up to then) and as far as I know there have been no new RF sources in the area, I am reluctant to pay out to have this done, it might not even solve the problem.
Although we are in the country the only active farm is about 0.5 miles away, other buildings near us are all domestic houses with no significant machinery in use. The only thing that has been suspect is a new borehole pump that was installed in 2014, but the mains cable to that comes from a different transformer a long way away from ours, the pump is about 130m from us. Having said that the interference is so random and of varying duration, that it is consistent with something like an automatic pump somewhere, the problem is how to track it down and prove it, the owner is not very approachable.....! Incidentally he has switched to satellite BB to get a good service, but he has a lot more money to throw around than I do.
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burakkucat

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Re: ADSL Noisy line
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2015, 05:49:59 PM »

I wonder if it might be possible to ask the owner of the electricity infrastructure to make a check of the transformer when one of their technicians is next in the area?  :-\
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gerrynp

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Re: ADSL Noisy line
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2015, 08:02:59 PM »

Good idea burakkucat, I will find out who to approach, I do have friends in the electrical industry who should know. Since everything was deregulated it is hard to know who is responsible for what!
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aesmith

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Re: ADSL Noisy line
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2015, 09:04:43 PM »

I think it would be the DNO,  SSE Power Distribution.  You can check here ...
https://www.ssepd.co.uk/Whoismynetworkoperator/
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gerrynp

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Re: ADSL Noisy line
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2015, 09:14:09 PM »

Thanks aesmith, it is Scottish Hydro it seems, I will check the transformer tomorrow to see if there is an identifier of some sort on it and get in touch with them.
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tickmike

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Re: ADSL Noisy line
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2015, 11:20:17 PM »

There should be a label on the pole.
Get them to look at your incoming supply to see if there are any loose connections, On my incoming supply the live cable was loose at the 100A service fuse a few years ago.
                           
See if you can get a Huawei HG612 they seem to work well on my long line.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2015, 11:25:24 PM by tickmike »
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I have a set of 6 fixed IP's From  Eclipse  isp.BT ADSL2(G992.3) line>HG612 as a Modem, Bridge, WAN Not Bound to LAN1 or 2 + Also have FTTP (G.984) No One isp Fixed IP >Dual WAN pfSense (Hardware Firewall and routing).> Two WAN's, Ethernet LAN, DMZ LAN, Zyxel GS1100-24 Switch.

aesmith

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Re: ADSL Noisy line
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2015, 08:42:11 AM »

Thanks aesmith, it is Scottish Hydro it seems, I will check the transformer tomorrow to see if there is an identifier of some sort on it and get in touch with them.
You may get a little bit of a run around, so be prepared for that.  Also they may wander off the subject a little, but so long as someone comes out you should be able to deal with the engineer regarding what exactly needs to be checked.   From my recollection I'd expect the transformer to only have maker's plate on it.  The pole will have an identifier, as will your meter.

(For example I wanted the earth type confirmed, whether it was TNS or TNCS.  By the time I'd been passed round a few times this had changed to them sending a guy to check whether we can be converted to PME.  Nevertheless once the engineer was on site he opened the cutout, confirmed TNS and took a reading as well to confirm all within spec.  Plus a final comment that PME wasn't available.)
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gerrynp

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Re: ADSL Noisy line
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2015, 02:28:29 PM »

Re Huawei 612 modem, looking at the page about unlocking it etc it seems that I would need a router to go with it to give me wireless LAN to all our computers. Is this correct? If so what sort of kit is needed, or can I press one of my existing ZyXEL modem/routers into service?
As you can probably tell electronics/telephony/broadband are not things I am familiar with (I am a mechanical engineer!) although I am reasonably computer literate, so please excuse the daft questions!

Gerry
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Weaver

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Re: ADSL Noisy line
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2015, 03:53:59 PM »

You'll need a router with an Ethernet connection that goes to the modem over which it speaks PPPoE. This connection is usually marked WAN.

But if you are in doubt it's better to get a single box router.
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Weaver

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Re: ADSL Noisy line
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2015, 03:56:06 PM »

Don't hesitate to ask for advice about suitable router choices. It's important to get one that is reliable and has a strong firewall function in it.
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gerrynp

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Re: ADSL Noisy line
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2015, 09:01:55 PM »

I have been poking around with my AM radio and am fairly sure (hedging my bets) that the interference is coming down the mains incomer. Whilst testing I have noticed that the noise occurs all along the frequencies that the radio can tune to (510-1602 kHz) at roughly 18kHz intervals (the radio tunes in 9kHz steps) with 'quiet' zones in between is this significant in any way? I am wondering whether what I am seeing is in fact not relevant at all.....!

In a post on another thread the use of a scanner was suggested (Icom IC-R5), I have a Yaesu  VR120D but find that the overall mush that occurs when the squelch is turned down overwhelms any RFI signal, if I turn the squelch up I hear nothing, I assume the RFI signal strength is inadequate to lift the squelch. The chap who was having the problem (tioschris) tried with the Icom but could not seem to get it to work, any ideas as the Yaesu can access a much wider range of frequencies than my radio.

Can RFI propagate through the pole mounted transformer that serves our local group of houses? If not, then the search area is manageable , if it does then it could be coming from anywhere down the HV distribution! This is assuming that it is not the transformer itself,I have yet to pursue this avenue, if it is would also feed back into the HV system, does anyone know?
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gerrynp

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Re: ADSL Noisy line
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2015, 02:30:36 PM »

Back to the drawing board I am afraid, after getting some strange indications with my AM radio I went back to basics and finally tracked down what was causing all the buzzing noise, it wasn't the transformer it was an old PC hiding in the back of my wife's office that I did not know was even connected to the mains! I feel like a complete idiot, should have found it days ago.
Anyway, I still need to get a handle on what is causing the problems on our BB line. I have tried running RSLite again but it still keeps crashing and freezing so I think that I need to get another router with a broadcom chip in that I can use to get the stats using one of the other programmes.
As the line is so unstable I want to be sure that anything I get can operate decently, and not keep crashing , so that I can get a good run of stats to see if it throws up any clues as to what is causing the problems.I don't mind spending a bit of money on it (the cheapskate route having failed spectacularly!) but I don't want anything too technical, so a combined modem/router would be best I think. I am tending towards a ZyXEL VMG 8324 but am open to suggestions, can anyone advise me on this please?
A dejected Gerry!
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