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[setecio]

Just been looking at a connection on a speedtouch USB 330 which was only getting download speeds of between about 100 and 500 kbps for about 2 years. Filters were missing from the phones, so they have now been installed along with a Netgear DG834G. Package is (and always was) an 'up to 8Mbps'

Download speeds are now around 1.5 to 2 Mbps but the modem is syncing at 6240 (I think, in the 6000s anyway) which is about right.

Am I correct in thinking that we should allow 10 days for the DLM system to adjust

If the download speed has not adjusted up above 2Mbps to around 5 to 6 Mbps (and the modem is still syncing in the 6000s) then we should inform the ISP of a stuck BRAS profile?

Given that nothing has been done to fix it for 2 or 3 years, are there any other likely reasons or would it most likely be a stuck BRAS profile (if it doesn't adjust), and does the length of time that the poor connection lasted (2 years) increase the liklihood that the BRAS profile will get stuck, or does it not depend on time ?

Thanks.

[b4dger]

The IP Profile should change from anywhere between 75mins and 5 days if it holds the new sync. 3 days often seems to be the norm in my experience.

When did you see the line sync increase?

[kitz]

Theres also the possibility that if the line has been so poor over the past year or so that the DLM could have been moved to a capped rate max line.  These lines are sometimes difficult to spot but one of the most likely clues will be that the upstream is often fixed to 288kbps.

Otherwise if its still within "normal max", then the length of time its been at the poor speed shouldnt make a difference and it should soon increase inline with the sync rate.  A jump from 500 - 7000 should happen fairly quickly.

Thinking about it though - who is the ISP?  It may be worth asking if they can place a retrain on the line.. since the MSR and Fault Threshold rate are going to be way off too.
If its a decent ISP then its worth asking..  if its one of "the larger ISPs", then it may be more hassle than its worth trying to get them to understand what you are asking for.


[edited to correct typo 700 should be 7000]

[setecio]

The speed reading that I took were 2 hours after making the changes

I think they'll be happy with the current 1.7 ish Mbps but if they ask me again I'll ask for a retrain.

I did notice the upstream speed was in the high 300s

Thanks.

[kitz]

>> I did notice the upstream speed was in the high 300s

Should hopefully be ok then, and the full profile should change within the 5 day period

[setecio]

......  It may be worth asking if they can place a retrain on the line.. since the MSR and Fault Threshold rate are going to be way off too.
If its a decent ISP then its worth asking..  if its one of "the larger ISPs", then it may be more hassle than its worth trying to get them to understand what you are asking for.

Is a 'retrain' the same as 'resetting the BRAS profile' ?

What are the best words to use if asking for this?

Do the vast majority of stuck BRAS profile problems occur when a fixed line is upgraded to a max line, or are they equally likely to occur well after an upgrade but during the auto adjustment of max speed during fluctuations caused by noise or faults on the line ? For example, if a line has achieved 6Mbps for several months and then drops and stays at 2Mbps for several weeks, is it very unlikely the BRAS profile will become stuck (since there is no upgrade from old fixed to new max currently taking place, as it is already on the max system) ?

[kitz]

>> Is a 'retrain' the same as 'resetting the BRAS profile' ?

Nope theyre not the same & afaik those are the common terms used.  If anyone knows otherwise please do add.

Reset is just giving the IP profile a kick start in line with the current sync speed.

Retrain is re-commencing the 10 day period in order to re-establish a new MSR and FTL
Theres also something called a Recalculated Profile (relating to the MSR and FTL) if the line goes through a bad period and the DLM will adjust these figures as well as the IPprofile. 
An ISP can also request a "recalculation of the profile" as can a BT Engineer though afaik this is the same as what we commonly call a retrain.

>> Do the vast majority of stuck BRAS profile problems occur when a fixed line is upgraded to a max line,

From what Ive seen yes...  for some reason the bRAS system doesnt seem to kick in properly.

>> For example, if a line has achieved 6Mbps for several months and then drops and stays at 2Mbps for several weeks, is it very unlikely the BRAS profile will become stuck

Very rare.....  in that situation using those particular figures I wouldn't expect it to happen often*

-----------

* Very little is known about some of the more intricate details of the DLM which is actually a patented design by BTw  - therefore they also dont disclose too much about its workings.

I started to type some theoretical stuff about the DLM - then thought I best keep the factual stuff in this thread and leave the theories to another. - Theory stuff here so as not to take this thread OT.

[Ezzer]

Just to let you know, a BT engineer cannot request a recalculation of the profile, the retrain is activated again just by the fact there is a broadband fault reported against the circuit. Once the fault is closed then the whole 10 day proccess starts again so it can take into account any changes that may have been done on the line, and in case the previous profile is a left over of some event which is no longer occuring which affected the dlm interpritation

[kitz]

Thanks for that info Ezzer. - Strange you would think that it would (should) be available to you upon request.

I'm pretty sure Ive heard of people say that it had been requested by the engineer after a visit
- so bearing in mind what you say...  its far more likely the user has been told this - and perhaps the engineer has simply just closed a circuit fault?      

[Ezzer]

Although what is sometimes possible if it's a case of a throttle back (by which i mean the actual speed is either at 1/10 or 1/4 mb) then by going through a 2 stage call another section can manualy go in and clear this (as long as the current test results are ok) then in a few mins the dlm responds to the possibilities for the results at that time.

However typicaly this is only done automaticaly which can take as I understand up to 24-48 hours. bear in mind this type of throttle back if a bit different to say the profile changing from lots of meg's to less. It shows up with actual speeds of 125-128 kbps or 240-256 kbps. To get on this setting then something has really rattled the dlm's cage at several points before

[andy_cheshire]

Hello,

I found this thread while googling and thought I'd add some thoughts/questions. I've also got a problem with what I believe is a "stuck" profile. I upgraded from a fixed 1Mb to a Max line about three weeks ago. Immediately after the regrade (literally at midnight on the day the ISP said it'd happen), my router disconnected from the net, then reconnected and started to sync at just over 3500kbps rather than the 1152kbps it had been at for around five years. The next day, once daylight had arrived, it started to go at around 5500kbps. Great, I thought, now I just have to wait for the new profile to kick in.

A few days later, on came the new profile which turned out to be a 4000, which is more than ample for my needs. Once darkness fell, the line synced slightly slower as these things are known to do and I was re-profiled very quickly to 3000, again fine for what I need (browsing, blogging, email, a bit of online video. 1Mb was fine for years, but started to show the strain recently with the way internet content is going more bandwidth intensive and downloads are getting bigger!) I was more than happy with the increased download speeds, even with the overnight drop, and considered the matter closed.

Then about four days after that, something bad happened to the line overnight while I wasn't around, I'm not sure what. Perhaps bad weather somewhere, or someone switching on a pirate radio station next to it, or something. Sync dropped to around 750kbps and--surprise, surprise--my profile was immediately hobbled at 500. Sync quickly regained its previous 3-4000kbps levels, but five days later my profile is still bloody 500. Even Gmail has a noticeable lag to it and you can forget Youtube. I've got friends on Scottish islands, population under 200, who have faster internet connections.

I've been in touch with my ISP. Usually, they're really good, they're a small local outfit so when you call you get someone who will actually talk to you about bRAS profiles and sync speeds rather than an 0906 call-centre "reboot your PC and wait four weeks before ever calling us again" monkey like I remember with the large ISP I used to use. They've said they need to talk to BT to get them to put an accurate profile on the line, but that was a couple of days ago so I presume BT haven't responded to them yet. What gives? Why are they so quick to bump your line down to slow speeds after a brief low sync event, but so slow to bring it back up? Is it some underhand way of managing congestion on their network (if everyone's down at 512k for ages, they save on bandwidth)? Why do they need bRAS profiles in the first place, can they not just transmit and receive data at current sync speeds and save everyone a headache?

(edit reason: corect awfull grammer an typoos)

[Astral]

Hi & welcome to the forum.

I don't think it is anything more sinister than the profile should normally adjust automatically but when it goes wrong you have to wait for "a (wo)man with a spanner" to come & fix it. Hope it gets sorted soon.

[andy_cheshire]

Just as additional, here's the offending speed test from a few minutes ago when I actually managed to get BT's normally unavailable speedtester thing to work:



If their systems "know" what my real data rate is, why can't they do something?! I've waited days and days and while I'm normally fairly cool about this stuff, it's getting a bit frustrating.

And my "vital statistics":

Downstream attenuation: 43.9db
SNR margin: 6-7dB variable
Data rate: 5120kbps

[b4dger]

Welcome to the joys of adsl MAX 
The BT chap that came up with the IP Profiling system used to play Snakes-and-Ladders a lot as a child 

The profiling (in my opinion) is THE worse thing about max - as you say, why do they wait so long to put you back to normal after one low sync???  This one thing must generate 1000's of support calls from irate customers.

If you are maintaining your sync and you profile hasn't recovered (75mins > 5 days) then something's up.
Are you sure you haven't had a low sync? I can recommend RouterStats (free monitoring s/w) so you can keep an eye on your sync and SNR.

[andy_cheshire]

So after a couple of days of 2500 profile, I find myself back in the low-speed doldrums, presumably because of another single bad sync. MAX just isn't working out for me; I'd rather go back to the 1Mb fixed that worked absolutely non-stop (I really mean that: other than closing the router down while I've been on holiday, it's never disconnected) for five years than this seemingly endless cycle of high-low-high-low. I can't see what my actual profile is, because the BT Speedtester is at its usual tricks again. I find myself shouting "doesn't has an apostrophe, you semi-literate technoc***!" when it tells me "The login name entered on this tool doesnt match that discovered by querying the network for your domain name." If they didn't have profiling, I'm guessing their speedtester wouldn't permanently be overloaded. There are thousands of sites where we can look at our actual throughput, people only ever use that one to see their profile.

Speaking of throughput, it's 341kbps which suggests to me that I've been stuck on a record low 350 profile. I have spent absolutely hours looking up internet speed problems, asking for advice, buying a new router, moving phone lines around, but I just give up; I need reliable internet and the constant alternating between excellent quality service and unusable service is unacceptable. It's not my ISP's fault, they're excellent. I lay the blame firmly at the door of the BT monopoly. With such poor line reliability, I may as well go on Tiscali's cheapest deal... it's not as if I'll notice a speed difference!