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[les-70]

 Hmm, hence my original questions and my phoning ISP's to ask.  Back in MAC code days migrations from TT seemed to usually involve a cease.  With the current system I wonder on the issue. 

  ZEN sounded confident of no loss but I always wonder whether their telephone or email agents fully understand things.  They may not yet have had many CAB full examples.  I think that in principle the switch from the LLU just involves an exchange pair switch and no CAB visit should be needed unless BT feel a need to decouple events and disconnect the FTTC link.  In part agreement with your advice I am nervous but still thinking on it.

 AAISP was a definite cease unless another broadband line was ordered with its cost and with the risk that it just sits there costing rental until a FTTC pair is free.   

[waltergmw]

Hi again  Les-70,

I agree that an ISP change from TalkTalk with the cabinet full is too risky as I'd guess that even a tiny time in cease mode might trigger another waiter into your slot. I would keep a VERY Close eye on the wait state together with a glance at roadworks.org in case upgrade works are mentioned.

Note also that even a new line has a provisioning time so I would start a little earlier that you anticipate the VDSL ports coming available.
I very much doubt that you can order a new VDSL service without there being a phone number to hang it on.

I would still favour AAISP AFTER talking to a real human being describing precisely what your situation is and what you have observed.

As BS mentioned the first wait state can be cleared quickly IF there are faulty ports but that will only free up a small number after the line card swap and you don't know how many are on the waiting list.

The next scenario is if an easy upgrade is possible just by adding a set of small 50 pr or larger 100 pr pr tie cables where there is sufficient duct space.

The most difficult and costly for the BT Group is where the trench has to be re-excavated. That can turn into a horrible pantomime lasting months.

Kind regards,
Walter

[les-70]

  Thanks for the good advice.  I fear it means that I need much patience. TalkTalk Business have just become rather more expensive and it seems that they don't provision on the standard FTTC DLM profile as I was first advised but the stable one.   

 It will be long wait as my DSLAM is currently in a sorry state.  There are two ECI's side by side each for a different town center CABs.  They currently look as though they are in war zone.  Substation replacement work by Western Power has left both part buried in slabs and other things. Both covered in concrete splashes and one with a bash and large section of obviously not well adhered paint removed. On top of that they have been in the middle of loads of angle grinding and its dust.   Western Power disappeared from the site two weeks ago and I guess some subcontractor will eventually attempt a tidy up!  I hope BT goes for them as the DSLAM could easily have been more protected. 

Speaking to an Openreach engineer at my CAB.  The 128 cards installed with two 50 pair cables are indeed all occupied on my CAB and also fully occupied are 50 lines taken from the DSLAM that was intended to just serve the 2nd CAB round the corner.  That second older CAB has fewer lines.   That does not sound a good arrangement should vectoring ever be enabled?  He confirmed that there is no spare duct space to the DSLAM's so it looks like long wait for the war zone to be cleared up and extra duct laid. That is assuming they ever do add more capacity.  If I owned the DSLAM's I would make Western Power pay for new ones. 

[Chrysalis]

are talk talk flat out refusing to change the DLM profile?

[Weaver]

I agree with Walter, you won't be sorry you went with AAISP. Andrews & Arnold are excellent.

[les-70]

 @Chrysalis  Yes refusal at all levels.  Usually the reply is not possible.  But if escalated and reminded of other ISPs that just becomes "not policy" to change it.  Including refusal in the face of it causing me planning  to leave.  Seems you take what they give or leave.  They used to be helpful re adsl profiles so I find it all puzzling.

 

[lmartin]

I have found this very interesting thread as a Google search result as I'm trying to find out what the hell is going on with my lack of ability to order Fibre even though my cabinet is enabled.

I moved back in September, from a property with 80Mb Fibre (via Plusnet).  When I started the move process with Plusnet the BT checker for the full address showed lack of Fibre capacity, but a date in mid-September for it to become available was shown.  Plusnet placed an order for ADSL for me to tide me over with an install date as my move date.  About a week later (and a few days before my move), Fibre showed as available, so I contacted Plusnet who cancelled my ADSL order and placed an order for Fibre instead.  The following day they called to advise the Fibre order had been cancelled due to lack of capacity - and so they had placed an order for ADSL again. I checked the availability checker again with my new address and this showed a new date for availability - this time in early-October.

Anyway, ADSL went live a week later as ordered, with a speed of around 2.5Mb - somewhat less than what I was used to previously.  Ever since I have been watching the availability checker like a hawk.  First of all, and now using my new telephone number to search it was showing the date it previously showed in October.  That day came, and upon checking the date had disappeared and there was just a message showing no FTTC capacity.  So that's 3 dates shown all missed.

Now, when I search for my telephone number I get no date at all, I just get the following note at the bottom:-

FTTC is currently not available on this cabinet due to following reasons:- Sorry your cabinet is temporarily unavailable, capacity will be restored as soon as possible.

It shows my cabinet as TOPSHAM 1

However, when I search my address, it shows a 'Waiters list' - and also shows my cabinet as TOPSHAM 1.  So why two sets of results?

Any idea what might be happening?  The cabinet serves a pretty large residential development still in development with more and more houses going up all the time.  So I'm not surprised demand is high!  When I use the superfast openreach checker I don't get 'High Demand', I get 'Exploring Solutions'.

I'm used to being able to watch a show in HD using Sky On Demand instantly!  Now if I want to watch a movie in HD I have to leave it downloading overnight.  Not very 'on demand'!

[waltergmw]

@ Imartin,

I have recorded proof that the BT Group used to go through a planned series of announcements with cabinets that are at cable capacity requiring repeat roadworks to add a second duct, usually for ECI 128 conversions to 256 cabinets and Huawei 288 cabinets.
.
There may be a different set of rules covering the swapping of a line card with faulty ports (which usually happens quite quickly) and the addition of a new line card.

The rules have recently been changed just to put up a waiting list without any dates being shown (As illustrated below). Formerly the date cycle changed every month extending the date by just less that another month.

1.   Roadworks are announced on the Roadworks.org web site, but often the contractors don't appear.
2.   The next day the cabinet is declared available for FTTC VDSL orders.
3.   The next day all mention FTTC is removed from the table of services but the unavailability text remains.
4.   The next day a new unavailability date is shown.

In your case I suspect, but can't prove, that your request for FTTC has been deleted as you have accepted the ADSL service. As discussed above orders may be placed for FTTC which will be held by the BT Group for 90 days before all the orders are automatically cancelled, unless previously fulfilled.

Kind regards,
Walter

__________________________________________________________

This PCP has a waiters list for FTTC services. You may place an order which will be dealt with in turn.
FTTC is currently not available on this cabinet due to following reasons:- Sorry your cabinet is temporarily unavailable, capacity will be restored as soon as possible.

For all ADSL and WBC Fibre to the Cabinet (FTTC or WBC SOGEA) services, the stable line rate will be determined during the first 10 days of service usage.

This line does not have left in jumpers.

[lmartin]

Thanks for the insight.  Do you happen to know why when i search for my phone number I get no mention of FTTC in the table and the line:-

FTTC is currently not available on this cabinet due to following reasons:- Sorry your cabinet is temporarily unavailable, capacity will be restored as soon as possible.

But when I search for my address (full address including house number) I get 'Waiting list' for FTTC in the table and the following:-

This PCP has a waiters list for FTTC services. You may place an order which will be dealt with in turn.

Both show me as exchange TOPSHAM and cabinet 1.

There is nothing on roadworks.org anywhere near the cabinet (or the exchange) showing for the next 12 months.

Also, the cabinet was activated under the Connecting Devon and Somerset scheme.  Does this reduce my chances of it being upgraded at all?  The area it covers is hundreds of homes, and ADSL gives us 2-3Mb at best so I'm surprised they didn't put more capacity in to begin with.  It's not been enabled long!!

[waltergmw]

Hi Imartin,

The BT W checker gives slightly different responses when you use a phone number or an address.
It's almost certain that you'e got a capacity problem which may be dealt with quickly if it's only a card insertion or replacement etc.
Crediton 5 & 10 are ECI cabinets and only required another 50 pair tie cable set installed.
However if re-excavation is necessary you could be in for a long wait.

I am vaguely amused that Topsham 14 (and 12 I think) are still under review as Cllr Leadbetter can't get superfast yet he's involved in the CDS quagmire.

If you'd like to PM me with your full details I'll have a poke around.
Do you know what type of FTTCabinet you have ?
I.e. Small 1 m high with lots of ventilation grills, small with a few grills or large double doors

Kind regards,
Walter

[kitz]

Hi Liam

The checker is strange when it comes to phone numbers v address.  The phone no is supposed to be more accurate for giving an estimate of speed, but Ive recently come to the conclusion that the phone no database does not quite hold the same amount of information and they dont necessarily tie up.   I suspect that some of it may relate to BT and non BTlines and what (how much) info the phone# database can hold.  I hook into the BTw database and it only stores line speed data for BT WLR based lines so Im not sure if there is some weird Chinese walling going on in the background as to who can hold what data.  What Ive noticed is that if you enter a WLR based phone no that seems to dictate which DB the results are returned from.   

Same thing as with post code which also throws up some strange results for 'LLU' lines and even say some lines cant get FTTC when in fact they are served by a valid cab.  Its not just me that runs into this difficulty with the adsl checker, Sam has it too.  For some reason the address database seems to have different information fields than the phone number database.  I had to implement a hack to get things working right for address v postcode as they do seem to be different databases and Im currently working on another hack to bring in more info based on the address for LLU based lines.    I know youre not LLU, but I think this may just be that the address database holds a further field for reasons that doesnt come up on either of the others.

---

tldr;  I suspect three totally separate databases that dont always logically tie up with the other two.

Im afraid I cant comment on the capacity issues and why that keeps being delayed..  walter has more experience when it comes to that particular area.

[waltergmw]

Thanks for the compliment Kitz !

It's only out of frustration observing the arcane and elephantine procedures involved via roadworks.org, and trundling around in my "Wheelbarrow".

I agree that there appear to be different sections of database which don't all keep in step and are probably produced for some political reasons and to embellish the obfuscation !

There are three public domain sources to observe and using imartin's annonymised data these sets of words are found. I have bolded the important differences:-

BT W address check:- (gives the exchange and cabinet number e.g. Topsham Cabinet 1)

This PCP has a waiters list for FTTC services. You may place an order which will be dealt with in turn.
WBC SOGEA is currently not available on this cabinet due to following reasons:- Sorry your cabinet is temporarily unavailable, capacity will be restored as soon as possible.

For all ADSL and WBC Fibre to the Cabinet (FTTC or WBC SOGEA) services, the stable line rate will be determined during the first 10 days of service usage.

For FTTC Ranges A and B, the term "Clean" relates to a line which is free from any wiring issues (e.g. Bridge Taps) and/or Copper line conditions, and the term "Impacted" relates to a line which may have wiring issues (e.g. Bridge Taps) and/or Copper line conditions.

Throughput/download speeds will be less than line rates and can be affected by a number of factors within and external to BT's network, Communication Providers' networks and within customer premises.

The Stop Sale date for Datastream is from 30-Jun-2012; the Formal Retirement date for Datastream is from 30-Jun-2014. The Stop Sale date for IPstream is from 31-Oct-2013; the Formal Retirement date for IPstream is from 30-Jun-2014.

Note: If you decide to place an order for a WBC fibre product, an appointment may be required for an engineer to visit the end user's premises to supply the service.
The DP is external to the end user premises.

Please note that postcode and address check results are indicative only. Most accurate results can be obtained from a telephone number check.



BT W number check  (gives the exchange and cabinet number e.g. Topsham Cabinet 1)

This PCP has a waiters list for FTTC services. You may place an order which will be dealt with in turn.
FTTC is currently not available on this cabinet due to following reasons:- Sorry your cabinet is temporarily unavailable, capacity will be restored as soon as possible.

WBC SOGEA is currently not available on this cabinet due to following reasons:- Sorry your cabinet is temporarily unavailable, capacity will be restored as soon as possible.

For all ADSL and WBC Fibre to the Cabinet (FTTC or WBC SOGEA) services, the stable line rate will be determined during the first 10 days of service usage.

This line does not have left in jumpers.

For FTTC Ranges A and B, the term "Clean" relates to a line which is free from any wiring issues (e.g. Bridge Taps) and/or Copper line conditions, and the term "Impacted" relates to a line which may have wiring issues (e.g. Bridge Taps) and/or Copper line conditions.

Throughput/download speeds will be less than line rates and can be affected by a number of factors within and external to BT's network, Communication Providers' networks and within customer premises.

The Stop Sale date for Datastream is from 30-Jun-2012; the Formal Retirement date for Datastream is from 30-Jun-2014. The Stop Sale date for IPstream is from 31-Oct-2013; the Formal Retirement date for IPstream is from 30-Jun-2014.

If the End User wishes to migrate from their current Broadband supplier they will need to contact the Broadband supplier they want to take service from to arrange for the service to be migrated.

Note: If you decide to place an order for a WBC fibre product, an appointment may be required for an engineer to visit the end user's premises to supply the service.
Please note that postcode and address check results are indicative only. Most accurate results can be obtained from a telephone number check.

BT Openreach Where & When Postcode and address check OR number check - both give the same result.

Exploring Solutions

Exchange name: Topsham

Your serving cabinet is enabled for fibre broadband however, from your postcode or the number you've entered, it seems you can't order it just yet. We are looking at ways to bring you fibre ASAP. Please keep checking back as we update our info regularly.

Some of the above data can be obtained by other means but this only complicates matters for the uninitiated and is sometimes contradictory too ! :-

-Phone Number: 01392xxxxxx
Exchange and PCP: Topsham P1
Possible To Order?: unservedpremises
BT Status Text: Your serving cabinet is enabled for fibre broadband however, from your postcode or the number you've entered, it seems you can't order it just yet. We are looking at ways to bring you fibre ASAP. Please keep checking back as we update our info regularly.
PCP Status: exploringsolutions
Exchange Status: exploringsolutions

Post Code: EX2 nXX
PCP: {WWTOPS}{P1}
Exchange: TOPSHAM
Status: Accepting Orders
Forecast Date: Now

Exchange name: Topsham

Your serving cabinet is enabled for fibre broadband however, from your postcode or the number you've entered, it seems you can't order it just yet. We are looking at ways to bring you fibre ASAP. Please keep checking back as we update our info regularly.

__________________________________________________________________________

From all of the above the rather concerning point is the "Exploring Solutions" from the Openreach story.
That seems to be BT Speak for "Give us more cash" and we might one fine day do something about it.
In CDS's case (Connecting Devon & Somerset) they have screwed up their phase 2 contract which won't now go out to tender (If the EC allows) by next summer.

Another major cause for concern are all the EO (exchange only) lines which seem to be ignored in most, but not all cases.
Sometimes an AIO (All In One) cabinet is provided but that is not done everywhere often because it wouldn't help if you've got small clusters of houses in different directions with distances up to 5 Km or so.

Kind regards,
Walter

[lmartin]

Well now my line is showing as available for Fibre. And a good friend at Plusnet (I worked there for a year nearly 10 years back) has placed an order for my upgrade. Let's hope it goes through!

[waltergmw]

@ Imartin,

Given that there is now a 90 day waiting list and BT Wholesale still reports that waiting list, I suggest you keep nagging for the installation date.
Once that is confirmed and you can see the words such as "There is an open order on your line ....." there is a reasonable hope that your VDSL service is about to be installed. Do please ensure you get an integral filter faceplate fitted to your NTE5 master socket and the VDSL Modem is plugged in there.

Good luck !

Kind regards,
Walter

[Black Sheep]

Bear in mind most FTTC 'Upgrades' (Conversions) are now Cab-only work ...... ie: self-install. The engineer will not visit the premises if you opt for this service.