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Author Topic: Openreach Charter  (Read 10132 times)

AArdvark

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Re: Openreach Charter
« Reply #30 on: September 30, 2015, 12:47:47 AM »

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Black Sheep

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Re: Openreach Charter
« Reply #31 on: September 30, 2015, 07:33:44 AM »

Personally, I've mixed feelings.

On an individual basis, every soul I have met from among BT employees has been a sterling character, eager to do well  not only for his employer, but also for customers and the industry in general.  This extends not just to the odd engineer who has visited my home, but to the various people I met in my career which included several visits to work in test labs at Adastral Park at Martlesham, home of BT's Global R&D HQ.

But... (There had to be a 'but') I do sometimes feel that the success of these individuals is not helped, and probably even hindered, by executive level decisions, such as off-shoring help desks to Indian centres.   Yes I know off shore help desks are common, but BT ought to be able to rise above what's 'common'.

I also think that their marketing tactics are tacky and shoddy of late, knowing at least one OAP who was sold an FTTC package that she really didn't need, using what I can only describe as 'scare tactics'.

Sadly BS, tbh, I can't help feel that the 'charter' may have been composed by those senior execs who makes the decisions I don't like.  Put bluntly it could all be utter BS, but not as in 'Black' or 'Sheep'.   :)

Nonetheless I think all of BT, OR included,  and even the wooly head executives, are still head and shoulders above any contemporaries elswhere in UK tech industry, in  every way.    :drink:

Hey 7LM, no worries at all. We all have an opinion, usually based on personal experience or that of someone we know. Plus, constructive criticism is always welcomed, (whether acted upon is another matter  ;D ).

I posted up the 'Charter' as an awareness only, sadly I too feel the upper echelon are somewhat detached from the middle to lower tiers of management. That however, doesn't detract from the fact the vast majority of individuals are trying their best at what they are tasked to do within the business.

The issue at my level (engineering) is that we are considered to be equal in all capabilities (Physical and mental). Whether you are a young 21yr old lumping a set of ladders and a gas bottle over rough terrain, for acres and acres of fields ...... or you're 50yrs+ doing the same job ....... you still get the same 'Task Time' allocated on the job.
There are also those who just don't 'get' DSL technology, and get proper stressed and upset when their personal stats start to go downhill because of it.

With any business the size of BT/OR they are going to get many things skew, as what works in London may not necessarily work in the village of Dunsop Bridge for example ..... but it's not brought in to be antagonistic, the intentions are for the most part good and true.
I know this, as I've worked for them for many decades and see, hear and read what's happening on a daily basis. As I say, I may not agree with everything they do, but there is never any intended malice at the back of it, as some folk on here think there is.
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guest

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Re: Openreach Charter
« Reply #32 on: October 01, 2015, 07:24:26 PM »

Your analogy happens every single day within BTOR.

We have a ceiling on provisioning costs, (I genuinely cant think what it is, but somewhere around the £2K mark springs to mind ??), anything over and above the benchmark and the survey officer/planner has to involve the EU to determine the best way forward. This will usually be exactly the same as your mate's scenario in NZ.

Its not an analogy - the guy is a techie (if you use VoIP in Oceania then you are likely paying the company he works for). Edit - I get to see some of his "spats" with Cisco, they do make me smile :D

He also has all the "civils" (certs for working on public property) but up until the point at which Chorus were created he got told "eat 20k of install costs".

Chorus came back to him after the split & made him an offer.

Thats the difference - Chorus chased him to sort it out.

Again OR are not (IMHO) the issue, BT Group are.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2015, 07:27:20 PM by rizla »
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Weaver

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Re: Openreach Charter
« Reply #33 on: October 01, 2015, 08:50:26 PM »

I was given a demand of ~£2k to install a certain modest length of copper, and presumably trench it then run it up a pole. I suppose I could easily have dug my own trench, now I think about it, not that that would necessarily saved me any money, as BT would still have had to finish things off, and I wouldn't want to risk knackering existing cable in the process either. That seemed a bit steep for two extra phone lines, so I just gave up. Perhaps I should ask politely a second time as now a number of years have passed.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2015, 05:02:25 PM by Weaver »
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Black Sheep

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Re: Openreach Charter
« Reply #34 on: October 02, 2015, 07:19:21 AM »

Your analogy happens every single day within BTOR.

We have a ceiling on provisioning costs, (I genuinely cant think what it is, but somewhere around the £2K mark springs to mind ??), anything over and above the benchmark and the survey officer/planner has to involve the EU to determine the best way forward. This will usually be exactly the same as your mate's scenario in NZ.

Its not an analogy - the guy is a techie (if you use VoIP in Oceania then you are likely paying the company he works for). Edit - I get to see some of his "spats" with Cisco, they do make me smile :D

He also has all the "civils" (certs for working on public property) but up until the point at which Chorus were created he got told "eat 20k of install costs".

Chorus came back to him after the split & made him an offer.

Thats the difference - Chorus chased him to sort it out.

Again OR are not (IMHO) the issue, BT Group are.

Sorry, I didn't mean you'd made it up. 'Analogy' has many meanings dependant on where you look, but one of those is ...... 'A similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based' .......... this is the intended meaning I was aiming for.

I don't know the comings and goings of Chorus though, I do know however that BT do have a set business model that is, and has to be, fair to the EU and the business itself.
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guest

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Re: Openreach Charter
« Reply #35 on: October 02, 2015, 12:20:30 PM »

I was given a demand of ~£2k to install a certain modest length of copper, and presumably trench it then run it up a pole. I suppose I could easily have dug my own trench, now I think about it, not that that would necessarily saved me any money, as BT would still have had to finish things off,mand I wouldn't want to risk knackering existing cable in the process either. That seemed a bit steep for two extra phone lines, so I just gave up. Perhaps I should ask politely a second time as now a number of years have passed.

BT won't let you (a consumer) do the trenching yourself or if they do then that's very recent (last 18 months or so).
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Black Sheep

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Re: Openreach Charter
« Reply #36 on: October 02, 2015, 03:44:30 PM »

I was given a demand of ~£2k to install a certain modest length of copper, and presumably trench it then run it up a pole. I suppose I could easily have dug my own trench, now I think about it, not that that would necessarily saved me any money, as BT would still have had to finish things off,mand I wouldn't want to risk knackering existing cable in the process either. That seemed a bit steep for two extra phone lines, so I just gave up. Perhaps I should ask politely a second time as now a number of years have passed.

BT won't let you (a consumer) do the trenching yourself or if they do then that's very recent (last 18 months or so).

Dependant on the premises, BT have always allowed the EU to do their own 'trenching'. If it requires doing so in the public highways and byways, then that is, and always has been, a matter to take up with the local council. But, if it the EU's own land, or permission has been given from a neighbour etc etc .............. then BT would never insist on trenching in cable/duct themselves !!

We would of course insist on making the ends off on the cable, for obvious reasons.
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guest

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Re: Openreach Charter
« Reply #37 on: October 02, 2015, 04:11:41 PM »

Interesting as a builder mate of mine was told exactly the opposite of that in 2013 - I saw the letter from the "Plant Protection Officer" which I found kind of amusing as there was no plant to "protect" :)

NB - he was told this as an end-user, not as a builder.
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Black Sheep

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Re: Openreach Charter
« Reply #38 on: October 02, 2015, 04:50:26 PM »

He must have his wires crossed ..... literally.  :)

It wouldn't be a PPO attending site, or shouldn't be. it would be either a 'Planner' or more likely, a 'Survey Officer'.

This small extract is taken from our ISIS document. In other words, it's equivalent to the 17th Edition regs for electricians.

'The end user or developer then asks for Openreach to revisit the site to discuss an alternative route that may reduce the cost, e.g. by laying duct or buried cable themselves.'
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guest

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Re: Openreach Charter
« Reply #39 on: October 02, 2015, 05:04:34 PM »

Nope it was the PPO who sent the letter - I told you I thought it was amusing as the trench was across a field this guy's family have owned for a couple of hundred years. NB - there's no wayleaves ever been granted on the land so there's no BT plant there (or anything else).

The gist of it was "we want to use our own contractors as that fits in with our own timescales, we won't reduce the price if you dig the trench & we'd have to survey the trench for H&S reasons". Having said that I don't believe the letter actually said that BT wouldn't allow him to do it but that was the VERY strong inference a reasonable person would have drawn.

He "solved" his problem by granting permission to a mobile operator to site a mast in the field & giving BT the two fingered salute. I haven't the heart to tell him that BT are buying EE :D
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