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Author Topic: 10 Downing Street Petition about Phorn, Virgin Media, BT and TalkTalk  (Read 36891 times)

dave.m

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Re: 10 Downing Street Petition about Phorn, Virgin Media, BT and TalkTalk
« Reply #75 on: October 01, 2008, 10:59:20 AM »

Quote
How do I switch BT Webwise on or off?

At any point thereafter, customers can change their choice by simply going to www.bt.com/webwise and clicking 'Switch BT Webwise Off' or 'Switch BT Webwise On'. Subscribers are responsible for making sure that other users of the service in the household are aware of BT Webwise and know how to switch it on and off.

BT Webwise uses a cookie stored on your computer to reflect your choice; on or off.
If you delete the cookie, you'll be shown the invitation page in your browser again and you will need to restate your preference. If you regularly delete your cookies and do not wish to take BT Webwise, add webwise.net to your browsers' blocked cookies settings.

Even ensuring it is turned OFF, if you run a cleaner and it removes the cookie, you are going to be nagged again and again.
Or you have to start adding cookies to your blocked list.
Do BT know if the people they are targetting are clued up to start adding cookies to block lists.

It should be a straight option of Yes, I'll do it or No, not on your life! And when a choice is made it should not have to be repeated everytime you run your maintenance software.

dave  >:(
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Golfer

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Re: 10 Downing Street Petition about Phorn, Virgin Media, BT and TalkTalk
« Reply #76 on: October 01, 2008, 08:47:45 PM »

Signed! 

Looking at the rolling ads on the phorm link, the companies there all say how good it will be for THEM re: targeting ads to specific consumers. 

The phorm banner proclaims that they've gone to great lengths to keep details private!  Bit of a conflict there, then?!!!!

My view is that any ISP that introduces phorm will lose customers in droves (provided the word is spread successfully) and forums across the net will be filled with questions and complaints about getting rid of it!

Rich

 
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kitz

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Re: 10 Downing Street Petition about Phorn, Virgin Media, BT and TalkTalk
« Reply #77 on: October 01, 2008, 09:15:25 PM »

>> Is anyone actually going to be daft enough to sign up for this?

Yes I believe they will Floydy.

It all seems to have been dressed up with the main selling point being webwise..   which correct me if Im wrong.. but doesnt do any more than the IE and FF do anyhow?

Knowing the behaviour of many older or non techy users.. they will see that and believe its giving them more protection whilst surfing. 
The stuff about serving ads and how it works has all been played down.
So yep I could see many not realising what it really is all about.. and would probably just click it at some point or other just to get rid of the nag screen.  :'(

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kitz

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Re: 10 Downing Street Petition about Phorn, Virgin Media, BT and TalkTalk
« Reply #78 on: October 02, 2008, 01:31:08 AM »

From el reg - linky

Quote
Phorm made a loss of $24.7m (£13.8m) in the first half of 2008 as it fought privacy advocates, lobbied to get politicians on side and tried to overcome technical problems dogging its ISP adware system.

and

Quote
Political scrutiny has made behavioural targeting a hot potato for US ISPs, but Phorm has hired a major lobbying firm in a bid to persuade Congressmen to its point of view.

So does that mean if youve got tons of money to lobby the government then you may stand a chance of success?

Call me a cynic - but I am still very curious about the u-turn and why the UK government said "it was happy for Phorm to go ahead", but they refused to publish the full details to the general Public.

« Last Edit: October 02, 2008, 01:38:52 AM by kitz »
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kitz

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Re: 10 Downing Street Petition about Phorn, Virgin Media, BT and TalkTalk
« Reply #79 on: October 02, 2008, 01:43:54 AM »

.... Which reminds me

Quote
Quote
But it stressed that any profiling must be done "with the knowledge and agreement of the customer".


I dont see any notice in the "BT invitation" that makes their users aware that they are being profiled.
It concentrates far more on the pro's of webwise's protection over fraudulent websites.
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jelv

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Re: 10 Downing Street Petition about Phorn, Virgin Media, BT and TalkTalk
« Reply #80 on: November 10, 2008, 12:30:42 PM »

Shows how well BT are in control of the Phorm trial. It's supposed to be BT users only, but today a Plusnet RIN user has ended up on the invitation to participate in the trials page. http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,70440.0.html

I suspect there may be a bit of a panic on in Plusnet Towers!

More worrying to me is the implications. I think this revelation proves that the kit is installed inside BT Wholesale, not BT Retail. What does the M in WBMC mean? Will Phorm be an integral part of that? It would explain why BT have been so unconcerned about losing customers if they were going to get revenue because the majority of ISPs using BT Wholesale will be on Phorm like it or not. :(
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kitz

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Re: 10 Downing Street Petition about Phorn, Virgin Media, BT and TalkTalk
« Reply #81 on: November 10, 2008, 01:18:48 PM »

It would have been very interesting to see that screen cap.
Like you say Pete Jackson seemed a bit surprised! - lets hope they act on it soon.

>> is installed inside BT Wholesale, not BT Retail.

/as an aside it makes me wonder how much control over shaping BT have on the PN RIN these days.. if messages like that are getting through too.

IMHO, my gut reaction is that RIN was a 'tag-on' block of BTrs bandwidth..  and somehow the bandwidth block has merged into one (ie BTr) and its not BTw doing anything.
I hope Im not wrong or the implications are very far reaching.
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kitz

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Re: 10 Downing Street Petition about Phorn, Virgin Media, BT and TalkTalk
« Reply #82 on: November 10, 2008, 01:43:59 PM »

Actually jelv I saw that comment earlier from elsewhere.. and when I responded in here..  I hadnt seen that Pete has since made another reply.
His later reply would indeed seem to indicate that PNs RIN was a tag on for BTr's bandwidth.  Without checking.. but off the top of my head, from his implication of the numbers involved - PN doesnt hold sufficient RIN bandwidth of their own.  IIRC you have to purchase 100Mb blocks, but there is a minimum which I cant recall. [edit its 1Gbps bandwidth]

BTW..  just found this about RIN under BT Central Plus
Quote
With this option, user logins are authenticated within BT broadband network and service providers do not, therefore, have to provide a RADIUS server.

IMHO Thats the key!


« Last Edit: November 10, 2008, 01:54:05 PM by kitz »
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jelv

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Re: 10 Downing Street Petition about Phorn, Virgin Media, BT and TalkTalk
« Reply #83 on: November 10, 2008, 01:54:20 PM »

Given that the user login (including the realm) is authenticated within the BT Broadband network it should be a simple job to determine if a user is on a BT or non-BT realm. As they have failed to do that it makes me suspect that the point at which the Phorm intercept happens is much deeper buried.
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