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[jelv]

Phorm opponents to picket BT shareholders

Opponents of BT's involvement with Phorm will protest outside its annual general meeting in London in July in a bid to alert investors to alleged wiretap law-breaking.

<snip>

Follow the above link for the full article.

[jelv]

Does anyone know if any ISP other than Plusnet uses RIN?

Why?

Can people check what they get if they go to http://www.webwise.com/privacy/can-choose-NA.html please.

If you are not on BT, Talk Talk or Virgin Media you should get:

You Can Choose
Webwise is currently not enabled by your ISP

I'm getting

You Can Choose
Webwise is currently: OFF

on my Plusnet connection. I.e. Phorm think I'm on an ISP using Webwise.

[roseway]

You Can Choose
Webwise is currently not enabled by your ISP

I'm with EntaNet (ADSL24)

[kitz]

>> Does anyone know if any ISP other than Plusnet uses RIN?

AFAIK Plusnet (aside from BT) is the only ISP that uses "RIN" ...  since its a kind of "new way" for ISPs to purchase bandwidth without having to shell out for their own centrals and bandwidth is more or less purchased on a PAYG process in 100Mbps blocks. It was basically a quick way for PN to get some extra bandwidth when it was urgently needed, and according to IW they/we were in effect beta testing what is now known as part of the WBC network.  How much of that is true or not I dont know since RIN and WBC was getting a bit mixed up at the time.

Those ISPs though that choose to go on 21CN, will be using WBC so it would be interesting to see what comes up for them.. although I believe with WBC the ISP can choose Ellacoya profiles.   Its a long time since I looked into all the WBC/RIN stuff - about 18 months ago -  so my memory is a bit hazy.

[jelv]

It would be interesting to know whether people get a 'BT' IP on not when they are on WBC!

[kitz]

Would be interesting to see a WBC tracert to see what path it follows. 
I dont know anyone thats on the enta 21CN trial though to ask to provide a trace.

[jelv]

https://nodpi.org/?p=20

Does anyone here know anything about the DPI features of WBMC?

[guest]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06/10/eu_bt_phorm_trial/

Viviane Reding, the EU European Commissioner for Information Society and Media wants people who "feel strongly about the trials" or were "unwittingly profiled in 2006/2007" to write to her.

Looks like BT might be attracting EU-level attention (and EU-level penalties). That ought to shake the gits out of their comfortable complacency!

[kitz]

https://nodpi.org/?p=20

Does anyone here know anything about the DPI features of WBMC?

Not much - but when I looked into it last year - it was really QoS/ Traffic prioritisation profiling.
AIUI (and I really cant remember now where I found the info on the BTw site) it was so that ISPs could say prioritise x amount of bandwidth for time sensitive applications such as VoIP or BT Vision.  From what I looked into it would appear that they have ellacoyas on each of the PoPs around the UK to manage these services.

I really dont have time to do any digging right now and I may be wrong - but Im pretty sure that the DPI features (or at least were) available to both WMBC and WBC.
AIUI the major difference between WMBC and WBC is that WMBC uses the Colossus backhaul (same as with existing IP stream), but the ISP has options as to how and where the routing goes from there..  I'm sure that WMBC can even go to traditional Centrals as per IPStream now...  or it could be routed straight out onto the net using the Central Plus option.

WBC is where the ISP has a presence at the PoP - and rather than using Colossus - and it goes straight to the ISPs network.

Finally one important thing to remember - just because an ISP says it uses WBC - that doesnt mean they dont also use WMBC for some other PoPs. 

Trying to think of an example - say Plusnet who has a large customer presence in the Sheffield area..  they could use WBC at the Sheffield PoP if they think its financially viable to do so. 
Yet for say for their Scotland customers they could use WMBC to route on to their centrals.. or they could also use WMBC and purchase WMBC bandwidth in blocks.

I may be wrong, but atm off the top of my head I cant think of an ISP (other than BT - or perhaps Vodafone if they dont purchase Tiscali) who could afford to invest in using WBC at _all_ PoPs in the UK.
Most of the biggies are investing in LLU at the exchanges if they have a large customer base there... so therefore doesnt make sense to also invest at the PoPs too..  unless they use it to "mop up" certain regions.

[Yorkie]

Just picked this up from another forum. If it was me  I'd be damned annoyed.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/phorm-to-use-bt-customers-to-test-precision-advertising-system-on-net-851133.html

[kitz]

hmmm... me too 

[kitz]

https://nodpi.org/?p=20

Does anyone here know anything about the DPI features of WBMC?

Not sure if its what you want.. but I came across some info which explained what BTs "Advanced Services" were.


EUSC : End User Speed Control – The ability of the SP to control the End Users maximum IP throughput rate in real time by interfacing with BT’s systems.
QOS : Downstream Quality of Service – The ability of the SP to request real time Assured Rate sessions by interfacing with BT’s systems .
AR : Assured Rate traffic - Where bandwidth is reserved in the BT Access Network to maintain the requested throughput.
BE : Best Efforts traffic subject to BT network contention.

I didnt actually get it from there.. but a quick google shows that theres some very similar info publically available on SINET 450 if you want to have a read.. and although it relates to IPStream  it does appear to tie up with the info I had about 21CN.

In that sense..  then the DPI mentioned in that link is simply ellacoyas doing Deep Packet Inspection to be able to perform the QoS?  Its no big secret that Ellacoyas perform DPI..  Its what theyre designed to do and again its not news that BT invested quite heavily in Ellacoya switches which are said to reside on their PoPs.

Putting everything into perspective I think there may be some confusion about the generalisation of the term BT. 
From what I can gather its BT retail aka BT Broadband doing the phorm stuff with their customer base..  and nothing to do with the BTWholesale side of things.

[J.Man]

  I just realised i'm on Virgin Media, It's wierd this isn't it ISP's selling browsing information to Phorm what happens if someones Credit card details get stuck in there ??

[kitz]

I can't make my mind-up whether it is totally a bad thing or not.
With reading the article above and it saying "it will display ads from xyz type companies.

Then, I wonder " I don't visit Gambling, Casino, Porn, Chat Rooms, On-Line dating and realistically I do very little Add-Hock surfing "
So, does that mean I could be virtually Ad free from all of the above.   
Or at least, PC related ads could possibly be more reliable than those listed above.


Or does it mean I will just get Ad's promoting the best movie and music download sites. 
(This last comment is very much, "Tongue-in-cheek, so comments are not necessary, thanks)

From what I can gather...  what happens is this.

You send a request to say kitz.co.uk to view this site...  and the phorm server "pretends" to be me.
What it then does is sends you the content from my site..  but it would strip say the Be or Plusnet (or anything similar) advert I have displayed.. and instead replace that with one of their own ads.

Therefore it may decide to serve you a TalkTalk ad.
Now that is annoying because no way would I want certain ISPs ads displayed  from this site...  but thats what people coming to this site would see.

To the visitor it would look like I was displaying an ad for cr@p_ISP perhaps making out they were the best and cheapest ISP out there.  This being an adsl site.. then users may believe it and sign up with cr@p_ISP.

In the meantime phorm will probably be paid something along the lines of £80 per sign-up (along the lines of what the big players like certain others get...  and me who pays to host the site gets bugger all..  and probably looses the opportunity of making a few pence from at least a half decent ISP which currently goes to help subsidise the not cheap cost of maintaining and hosting such a site like this.

So they win - sites loose - yet its the site thats dishing out the content - and they are creaming it in.
Small player such as this site wouldnt stand a chance - despite how busy the main site is.
Because theyre big they get big money from the advertisers..   because I try not to push ads I get pennies.
I'm actually already thinking of taking down some of the ads because its not worth it - I know some people reakon they make a mint with the likes of google ads but I certainly dont..  not at a rate of quite often around 1 cent per day... which goes bugger all towards my hosting costs. 
From experience (and perhaps Im being too frank here) but any income towards costs is far better by me choosing to display an ISP that I agree with - rather than something a third party (such as google ads) decides...  and at least I feel happier in the knowledge too that I dont display something that is there for monetory values only.
Yes I could make more from ad revenue - but I choose not to display it.   Phorm takes that away from me and the site and will display what the hell it likes.

/end rant as she looks at nearly empty bottle of wine :/

[Floydoid]

then users may believe it and sign up with cr@p_ISP.

Surely you can't mean Tiscali?