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Author Topic: MS confirms my doubts re:Control of your 'own' PC  (Read 7912 times)

broadstairs

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Re: MS confirms my doubts re:Control of your 'own' PC
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2015, 11:55:16 PM »

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I'll need to make sure that's possible and legal (by Apple's licence), but don't see why it shouldn't be?

That's what gets my goat about Apple, if you own the damn hardware then in my view you can do what you want with it and Stuff Apple.

Stuart
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AArdvark

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Re: MS confirms my doubts re:Control of your 'own' PC
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2015, 01:08:19 PM »

Apple's view is more like you are buying a lifetime lease.
The device allows access to the Apple ecosystem but Apple control everything else. This includes what can and cannot 'touch' their hardware or networks etc.
Great for Apple but misunderstood by many including their own customers.

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk

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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: MS confirms my doubts re:Control of your 'own' PC
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2015, 01:33:35 PM »

Actually, Apple are pretty generous with what you can/cannot do with Macs.

For example, new OS versions are usually nearly (or completely) free.  After all, you've paid for the MAC.   And, having chosen to install the new OS, Apple (at least in the time I've been using MACs) are quite happy for you to multi boot old and new OS on same PC, no extra license required.

If you want to dual boot Microsoft Windows on MAC, they not only allow it but make it very easy...

https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201468

As stated, I'm not aware of any restriction against installing Linux.  I'd be surprised if there were, but would want to read the small print again just to make sure. 
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broadstairs

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Re: MS confirms my doubts re:Control of your 'own' PC
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2015, 02:48:55 PM »

I simply do not accept that Apple have any rights at all over the hardware you purchase and therefore own. If they only allowed you to rent the hardware that would be different. However as you own it they have no rights over what you do with it whatsoever, and in my view that also applies to reverse engineering it if you so wish, provided that is is ONLY for your personal use. That also applies to installing any software you want on it, OS or application s/w.

Stuart
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AArdvark

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Re: MS confirms my doubts re:Control of your 'own' PC
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2015, 03:18:08 PM »

@broadstairs
I could agree with your sentiments BUT Apple do make it clear what you are allowed to do (if you look before you sign on the dotted line  ;D )

It is part of the judgement you make when you buy into the whole Apple 'World'.

@sevenlayermuddle
I simply have a different view of apple to you.
What you see as generous I see as nothing more than allowing you to play the way Apple want you to play.
e.g. Allowing multiple versions of IOS to be installed does not have any negative side for Apple as they need to allow some backward compatibility and in all cases you are using the 'allowed' OS.

Further, allowing you to use MS OSes in a virtual machine is simply conceding that there might be some software you need to run which is NOT produced by Apple.
I am not saying the restrictions are malicious but are controlling compared to the freedom you had  :'( with MS and have with *nix.

You characterise Apple as being somehow altruistic while I see them as a very carefully designed machine to make lots of money.
No decisions are personal they are calculated to the last cent.

The difference between MS & Apple is the subtlety of their interactions with their customers.
MS hits you over the head with a large club and says 'You must'
Apple caresses your brow while pushing you steadily but inexorably towards the 'Apple Way'.
In both cases you end up where the vendor want you to be  ;D ;D
« Last Edit: August 23, 2015, 03:21:54 PM by AArdvark »
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: MS confirms my doubts re:Control of your 'own' PC
« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2015, 03:25:10 PM »

OS X is software, not hardware, and so, just like Microsoft Windows and (yes) Linux it is subject to a  licence agreement that will tell users what they can and cannot do.

If you don't want to run OS X then I'm not aware of any restrictions on use of Mac hardware, pretty sure you can do what you like with the hardware.

It's really no different to Windows or Linux, all have licences agreements, just the terms of the licence are different.
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: MS confirms my doubts re:Control of your 'own' PC
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2015, 03:34:47 PM »

I simply have a different view of apple to you.

Clearly. :)

May I ask, is your view based on personal experience?

My view is based on experience and moreover it is gained on experience of using Apple products alongside Linux and Microsoft, often all three at the same time.
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AArdvark

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Re: MS confirms my doubts re:Control of your 'own' PC
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2015, 03:39:57 PM »

Sorry I don't do 'Apple' so OSX is correct not IOS  ..... Oops  ;D

I have never heard of anyone buying Apple hardware to NOT use the Apple OS as it was designed for.
It would be an expensive way to get the hardware.
Which would not run MS OSes well if at all due to incompatibilities ..... (I don't mean via a virtual machine as that is using OSX)
*nix maybe but you would have to search for drivers etc to make all the hardware work. (Not sure that they are all available)

We seem to be 'arguing' about Apple which was not my intent.
If you like the Hardware/Software and like the Apple way of doing things that is your choice which I am totally happy for you to do.
I just wish people would understand fully what they are doing, just as with MS and Win10 now.

Informed consent is what it comes down to.
There is far too little of it with MS win10 which started this thread.

I like the usability of Apples kit generally but not the 'cost' to buy into the whole ethos.
Your view if different and so your decision to use Apple kit. Fair enough.
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AArdvark

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Re: MS confirms my doubts re:Control of your 'own' PC
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2015, 03:56:46 PM »

I simply have a different view of apple to you.

Clearly. :)

May I ask, is your view based on personal experience?

My view is based on experience and moreover it is gained on experience of using Apple products alongside Linux and Microsoft, often all three at the same time.

I have used Apple kit in the past having to support some people who insisted on have different kit to everyone else.
As stated the usability is not the issue.
It is very nice and isolates from lots of issues with the hardware but having worked with kit from the hardware up that isolation can be annoying at times.

Apple tries to design kit that 'just works', to do that they have controlled everything to make incompatibilities as small as possible and reduce errors .... great and good !

This leads to one of those situations where the decision is 'If you want that  .... you have to accept this'.
The 'This' in Apples case is that I must pass too much of my data (by my measure) though Apples computers.

I don't want to do that so apple is not on my 'Buy list'.
Others want the features of living in an 'Apple world' so trade one against the other.

That is it in a nutshell.
Which links back to my general problems with privacy with MS, Apple and Google etc etc
I am not picking on Apple, they are simply the 'experts' that obviously MS are trying to emulate ... badly.  ;D
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broadstairs

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Re: MS confirms my doubts re:Control of your 'own' PC
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2015, 04:37:53 PM »

I do agree that Apple (well Macs) are very nice to use almost as good as my beloved Amiga which I had to retire some years ago sadly, for my mind one of the best ever computers ruined by hugely bad management at Commodore. In fact I use to run the Mac OS (pre OSX days) on a Mac emulator on my Amiga  ;). It is without doubt well designed and generally works but it is in my view hugely overpriced for what you get. That said MAC/OSX is good and if it suits your purpose (and you can afford it) then that's fine, although I dont hold the same view of the phone products.

I do feel however that many large corporations are going the route of saying  you can create your data but we will get access to it by fair means or potentially foul, which is why I dont use the cloud and never will, all my data is held on my own equipment. M$ have taken this all a big step too far in my view and I hope it will come back to bite them hard at a later stage (probably when huge amounts of customer data is exposed on the web), I fully expect this to happen.

Stuart
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Dray

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Re: MS confirms my doubts re:Control of your 'own' PC
« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2015, 05:01:57 PM »

As far as I can see, people don't care about their personal/private data given the amount they provide to Facebook etc. Further, they freely share anything they know about me, for example, as well.
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broadstairs

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Re: MS confirms my doubts re:Control of your 'own' PC
« Reply #26 on: August 23, 2015, 05:17:00 PM »

Which is why I only use Facebook and Twitter to view stuff and never post any data on there. I have copyrighted stuff removed from Facebook in the past and never flinch from chasing anything which is used without permission AND accreditation. I do hate the way people use these so called social media sites, in fact I often feel anti-social media would be more appropriate especially considering the number of people who dont look where they are going as they are too busy on their phones doing this stuff. Who gives a s*** that someone has just been to their favourite coffee shop or just run 3.8 miles round a park!

Stuart
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Berrick

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Re: MS confirms my doubts re:Control of your 'own' PC
« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2015, 05:26:00 PM »

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As far as I can see, people don't care about their personal/private data
Most peepz don't understand that they are giving it. They havent even read the EULA which states what the hardware or software manufacture take.

Sorry 7LM Apple are the worse for this. If you have an Iphone with Siri read what data apple collects from using that :'(
« Last Edit: August 23, 2015, 05:29:18 PM by Berrick »
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AArdvark

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Re: MS confirms my doubts re:Control of your 'own' PC
« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2015, 05:50:23 PM »

As far as I can see, people don't care about their personal/private data given the amount they provide to Facebook etc. Further, they freely share anything they know about me, for example, as well.
It is because of this attitude, that has been carefully fostered, that MS et al are pushing the boundaries and will keep pushing them.

I too dislike the fact that not only are people giving away their own data but by indirection they are giving my data away as well.
I have never signed up to any service/site that publishes data about me, unless I choose to.
Facebook, Twitter etc are of no interest .... Sorry!  :o
It's not that I have anything of major national importance to lose  ;D it is just I don't feel I should help the process along by following the crowd.

The latest thing I have read is a 'Secure E-mail' app which destroys the message after it is read. (Wasn't there a similar thing for Photo's ? )
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-33650488 [Confidential CC is the Company]
Don't get the point as it is not secure if the message can be read. A fancy UI the makes reading the message difficult is no protection.
Wait for the 1st app that is able to read the messages without the obscuring UI.
Also it is yet another attempt to get buy-in for the 'X' (secure mail) as a lead-in to using 'Y' (other services) ..... you know where that leads  ;D ;D :D
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: MS confirms my doubts re:Control of your 'own' PC
« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2015, 05:50:49 PM »

[Sorry 7LM Apple are the worse for this. If you have an Iphone with Siri read what data apple collects from using that :'(

The difference is, it is obvious that Siri is going to upload content to Apple, it even refuses to work if you don't have a connection.  If it bothers you, you can disable it.  I strike a middle ground by disabling 'Hey Siri' as I'm not comfortable with the possibility it might be 'listening' to unintended conversation, that way Siri only listens when I press a button to make it do so.

Similarly, I have seen 'spotlight' criticises.  But it performs a web search, so how the heck did critics think it worked, other than by uploading the searches?   And there is of course no need to use the facility and even if you do, it is easily configurable.

But that bears no comparison at all to the criticisms of W10, whereby it is suggested (in this thread and elsewhere) that W10 uploads data for which there is no obvious justification, and make it very difficult if not impossible to opt out.  Have I jumped to conclusions prematurely in supporting criticism of W10? 

If this is really the only kind of thing that Microsoft are doing, I may have to reconsider my criticisms of W10.  ???

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