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Author Topic: MS confirms my doubts re:Control of your 'own' PC  (Read 7911 times)

AArdvark

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MS confirms my doubts re:Control of your 'own' PC
« on: August 20, 2015, 08:39:41 PM »

MS have announced a new 'unified Microsoft services policy' which has been running from the start of this month. (Didn't hear that one!)
It covers Xbox, Bing, Cortana, OneDrive, Outlook.com, Skype and Xbox Live as far as I can tell.
All these things happen to 'spill' over onto your PC which is now running Win10.  :o ::) ;) [MS: If it isn't it should be. You know it makes sense.]
Therefore if you combine the new 'Services Policy' with the new improved EULA you have no right to control anything according to MS.

I anticipated some movement, obviously I underestimated the drive the 'Scent of Money' would generate, it gives the right to control what s/w and h/w you are allowed to use to MS. (Where have I seen that idea before ??!!  ::) )
Give a little bit of time and some subtle scope creep in the T's & C's and it is all over for Personal Computing as we know it.

Probably, on further thought, Subtle is not a word MS seem to know.
They are really running at full speed toward emulating Apple and their total control of their users.
If you have a slight feeling of uneasiness and can feel/hear a faint rustling/clinking noise .... it's just MS lightening your pockets of any spare cash !  ;D

......... It's just a practice run so everyone gets used to the concept.
When they get your CC numbers & Bank Account details the process won't hurt at all!  Honestly.:D :D

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/19/microsofts_walled_garden_is_no_pleasure_park_for_consumers_says_pirate_party_mep/

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kitz

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Re: MS confirms my doubts re:Control of your 'own' PC
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2015, 11:31:38 PM »

Quote
it gives the right to control what s/w and h/w you are allowed to use to MS. (Where have I seen that idea before ??!!  ::) )

Oh dear...   That is really one of the things that pees me off big time with Apple.   Its like I love my ipad, but it bugs the hell out of me how Apple has so much control over what I can and cant do with it and the next tablet I purchase wont be Apple purely because of the control. 

If MS start going down this route, then it could drive some of the more tech savy towards abandoning Windows in favour of Linux
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: MS confirms my doubts re:Control of your 'own' PC
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2015, 12:22:25 AM »

I'm not convinced the Apple comparison works.

As I see the world Apple, as a rule, simply constrain what you can do so it fits the design constraints of the hardware, and of the OS. 

This has benefits... my 2009 Mac Mini still works with the latest OS/X whilst my iPad 2, approaching four years old, still runs latest iOS 8. 

More significantly,  as anybody ditchijg an insecure Android will appreciate,  the aging  iPad gets the security updates as soon as they are available.   Current rumours are that my 2009 Mac Mini will continue to work with OS Post Yosemite and  that iPAD 2s, all of which will be about four or five years old, will work with iOS 9.

just my opinion.   :)
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AArdvark

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Re: MS confirms my doubts re:Control of your 'own' PC
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2015, 01:32:59 AM »

I see the benefits .... IF..... you have a choice to buy in to the Apple Vision or not.

I will fight for your right to choose but if everyone goes down the same route it is bad all round.

Once it is the norm do you think Apple or any other large corporation will simply remain as they are.
It will be yet another race to bottom.
If MS is seen as having an advantage in how they leverage all the 'Data' they harvest and is seen to be challenging Apple and/or their plans they will 'evolve' in a similar way.
Every company who sees the opportunity to stick its snout in the trough and get rich will do the same.
My problem is that once the ability to have some privacy is gone, that is the end of that.
No-one will NOT monitise their users because it is the norm.
To not do so would be to go against the best interest of your shareholders. End of Story.

I am not a luddite fighting against 'Progress', I value privacy as a principle and I think we should fight for its preservation before it is too late.
[Clarion call over  ;D]
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broadstairs

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Re: MS confirms my doubts re:Control of your 'own' PC
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2015, 07:35:11 AM »

I agree that privacy is the principle concern and the way M$ is going should worry everyone. Currently Apple are not going that way, the monetise their customer base by restricting what you can do with your Apple hardware and by getting buy in to a lifestyle product.

By the way Android is inherently no more insecure than any Apple product, virus writers and hackers will always attack platforms which are likely to provide the best return on their investment just like regular developers. M$ and Android platforms represent huge numbers when compared to Apple equivalent products so where do you think hackers put their efforts. Linux is in a similar position to Apple in that respect.

What M$ is doing is very different and to be deplored but I dont believe for one minute that will stop them. I had already decided not to run M$ software as much as possible and this only confirms my view was correct. My two laptops will NEVER get W10, the one running W8.1 will get converted to Linux in the next few weeks and my W7 one will go the same route when I have found Linux weather software which works as well as my current stuff does (at present nothing comes close), however I only ditched W2K a few months ago so I think I have a few years of life with W7 yet.  ;)

Prior to my retirement I worked on security software with some defence clients so I have a good understanding of security in all forms of IT. However much M$ will try what they are doing is a big issue for both security and privacy. No one has any right to access my data in any way at all without my express permission and with W10 there is no way easily to prevent M$ from doing this under the covers and I for one do not believe they are capable of providing secure storage for any data they obtain, plus I dont trust what they might use it for.

Stuart
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: MS confirms my doubts re:Control of your 'own' PC
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2015, 08:29:49 AM »

I have to say I don't have any privacy concerns with Apple, not sure what the W10 privacy comparisons are really based upon? 

Re security, it's not that Android is any less secure than iOS, it's just that it's much easier for Apple to push out updates to fix any vulnerabilities that might emerge, even to older hardware.  They can do so because they control both the hardware and OS.    That's much harder with Android, owing to the complexity of updating, with dependencies on both Google and handset makers.  What chance of (say) Samsung, for example, pushing out Android security fixes for an Android phone that is four or five years old?
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AArdvark

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Re: MS confirms my doubts re:Control of your 'own' PC
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2015, 12:45:59 PM »

As if to prove my point about 'evolution' of companies 'data grabbing'.

Spotify have announce a change in their T's & C's and want to have access to more of 'your' data to provide a 'better' service.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-34016658

This is what I mean, all companies watch the market and see what is now allowable\'slips through the net' and change their 'data needs' to not miss out.  :o :( >:(
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: MS confirms my doubts re:Control of your 'own' PC
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2015, 11:22:18 PM »

Personally I think the wholesale abandonment of privacy dates back to pre home PCs and Internet.

In late 80s and early 90s, retailers began to offer 'loyalty' cards.  Customers were offered a small financial reward in return for allowing the retailer to collect detailed data on every purchase, save that data for all eternity, and to sell that information to whoever they wanted for their own financial reward.   Personally I reacted with horror, and can honestly say I have never accepted a loyalty card, but I was a bit shocked by the wholesale take up, and surrender of privacy, by the rest of the population.

Even Waitrose, supposedly a reserve of intellectuals, now offers a data-mining card - in return for a paper cup of coffee at the door, you surrender all privacy regarding shopping habits.   It seems to have had good uptake. :(
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AArdvark

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Re: MS confirms my doubts re:Control of your 'own' PC
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2015, 11:30:39 PM »

You are true the 1st dabbling in the arena of collecting customer data was Store Cards.

The same 'Customer' mentality seems to prevail now of only seeing the short-term gain and not seeing the long-term loss.

Even better now the short-term gain is 'made up' and still the people clamor to give all their privacy away for something they did not know they wanted !

 ???  :no:  :'(
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broadstairs

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Re: MS confirms my doubts re:Control of your 'own' PC
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2015, 08:26:43 AM »

Yes store cards were probably the start of most of it, however the big difference between store cards and what M$ is now doing is that the customer had an open and obvious choice to use a card or not to use one. This is something which with W10 is not a choice which is in anyway so obvious in that 99% of people will be totally oblivious to what is happening to their data, and potentially we are talking much more information most people would NOT want mined!

Stuart
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: MS confirms my doubts re:Control of your 'own' PC
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2015, 10:34:43 AM »

From what I have read here and elsewhere, I agree about W10 privacy issues.  It is actually quite frustrating, as our windows system is long overdue replacement (8 yr old hardware, still on XP).  I can't get enthusiastic about any of the current M$ options, especially W10, and yet for various reasons we do want a Windows system.  :(

Last time around, when we bought XP, we splashed out on an expensive full license for Microsoft Office.  But last time I looked, (pre-W10) even that in recent iterations seems to be going heavily cloud-based, and hard to opt out, with Microsoft pitching it as a good thing.  For that reason alone, we probably won't buy Microsoft Office this time, no matter what Windows version we end up with.  I run Open Office on the MAC - it's slow,  a bit clunky, and crashes more often than you'd like, but does the job once you get used to its quirks.  Hopefully, it will suffice on Windows too.
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broadstairs

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Re: MS confirms my doubts re:Control of your 'own' PC
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2015, 11:07:16 AM »

These days I use LibreOffice which was forked from OpenOffice some time ago, having never been a M$ Office user even at work  ;) I cant compare but I believe LibreOffice might be worth a look, runs fine on my wife's W8.1 laptop. I run it on Linux which is different  ;) Unless you have stuff for which M$ is essential I do honestly believe that a KDE based Linux system can be a good alternative without a huge learning curve these days as a replacement for XP etc. Well worth downloading a USB drive bootable copy and having a play, there is very little you cant find Linux software for and most hardware is supported these days.

Stuart
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roseway

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Re: MS confirms my doubts re:Control of your 'own' PC
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2015, 11:20:05 AM »

I have friends who use LibreOffice on Windows systems and are completely happy with it.
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: MS confirms my doubts re:Control of your 'own' PC
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2015, 11:57:27 AM »

Thanks for the tip, I'll check out libre office.

For reasons I won't go into, we actually have Linux, Mac and Windows systems, and each have their uses.   We're probably ready to start to migrate away from Windows, but not yet able to burn the bridge.   We certainly need a Mac for OS X as I do iOS development as a hobby, and the development tools are totally dependent on Apple's licensing servers which, of course, require OS X.

latest thoughts (since this morning ;) ) actually are to replace the windows box hardware with a decent Mac Mini, and then multi boot it with Windows 8.1 and Linux.   I'll need to make sure that's possible and legal (by Apple's licence), but don't see why it shouldn't be?    Apple even sanction the Windows part of it with OS X bootcamp.   That may be the best way of laying a path that leads us in the long term to get rid of windows, whilst keeping both other options open...
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AArdvark

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Re: MS confirms my doubts re:Control of your 'own' PC
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2015, 02:22:12 PM »

I second (or third :) )the Libreoffice comments.
I moved to Libreoffice a few years ago and it works fine.
(Wanted to break my MS habit after fighting/supporting other peoples .pst crashes. I moved to Thunderbird & LibreOffice (OpenOffice 1st then moved))

There are always people that say it is not able to support the most complex spreadsheets & the presentation s/w is harder to use than MS's etc etc
For general use I have never had a problem.
If you need to use it in anger, test it with your most complex documents/spreadsheets etc. Only costs a little of your time.

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