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Author Topic: G.INP / Retransmission - Questions to Openreach  (Read 21357 times)

AArdvark

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Re: G.INP / Retransmission - Questions to Openreach
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2015, 08:47:26 PM »

I'm glad you sorted that out  ::)

Thank you  :D
As there was still questions being raised I thought someone needed to state it as briefly as possible.
I am helpful like that !  ;D :D ::)

I also do a good line in the 'blindingly obvious' as well.  :D ;)
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NewtronStar

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Re: G.INP / Retransmission - Questions to Openreach
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2015, 08:53:23 PM »

Thats great Kitz and very happy that all questions were answered it can't have been easy for you, yet the ECI re-transmission answer looks ambiguous but i would like to see the 1st ECI cabinet user get G.INP enabled this September  :fingers:
« Last Edit: August 20, 2015, 08:57:52 PM by NewtronStar »
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Black Sheep

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Re: G.INP / Retransmission - Questions to Openreach
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2015, 08:56:07 PM »

You have indeed gone to the very top there, Kitz. Great result.
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tommy45

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Re: G.INP / Retransmission - Questions to Openreach
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2015, 09:20:45 PM »

To clarify the clarification: (My understanding of)

ECI Cab to Anything will support DS G.INP if the modem supports it. No support for US G.INP.
Huawei Cab to Anything will support DS G.INP if the Modem supports it.  Excluding ECI & Others* US G.INP is enabled only if DLM thinks it is needed.


That is my interpretation too.
firstly thanks for sharing the info, but his answer re g.inp doesn't make sense when G.inp MK1  g.inp was enabled on the us was enabled as well as ds , it imo is only due to the fact that the ECI hardware doesn't support it , they have change it to ds only, if you understand what i mean?
 The community where correct with quite a lot of things really, but nice to have it confirmed or at least some of it confirmed, TBH some of his answers were a bit vague bordering on being incorrect possibly, not trying to start an argument , just pointing out how it read to me
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underzone

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Re: G.INP / Retransmission - Questions to Openreach
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2015, 09:34:58 PM »

Read it again mate.

Huawei cabinet users can get (if DLM warrants) G.INP upstream OR downstream.
ECI cabinet users can get (if DLM warrants) G.INP downstream ONLY.

Thats it.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2015, 09:38:36 PM by underzone »
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kitz

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Re: G.INP / Retransmission - Questions to Openreach
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2015, 10:26:21 PM »


firstly thanks for sharing the info, but his answer re g.inp doesn't make sense when G.inp MK1  g.inp was enabled on the us was enabled as well as ds , it imo is only due to the fact that the ECI hardware doesn't support it , they have change it to ds only, if you understand what i mean?

IMHO they were possibly caught out with so many ECI modems actually in use with the Huawei cabs and the speed loss experienced by those users.  If all Huawei cabs had Huawei modems attached then there wouldn't have been a problem*. 

If they never anticipated using upstream ReTX on the ECI cabs, then it wouldn't have mattered so much that the ECI modems doesn't support it.
But the problem is that there are god-knows how many ECI modems out there attached to Huaweis. 

I know for a fact that in July 2013 that the Quinn guy who did my own install only had ECI modems on his van and was dishing out ECI's regardless of which cab.   I specifically asked for a Huawei, but he couldnt provide one because he didnt have any...  nor did he have much of the right equipment at all when it came to that..  not even correct Openreach NTE's, which led to my bodged install on using an LJU2  and me having to place a call to my ISP to get a proper OR engineer to come back and sort out his mess of an install.   Basically all he had were ECI modems and a pile of SSFPs.   :'(

*The issue with the HomeHub5A is another matter and IMHO thats up to BTretail to push their suppliers to update the f/w.  The HH5A should have sufficient hardware resources to be able to cope with upstream retransmission.  TP-Link have successfully been able to do so with the TD-W9980. 

burakkucat raises a very interesting point about jsamuel's recent work into getting the ECI modems to work with upstream g.inp which has so far been successful.  The question is, if a member of our community can get f/w working so that the ECI's can perform upstream ReTX then why arent Openreach doing this?

Quote
The community where correct with quite a lot of things really, but nice to have it confirmed or at least some of it confirmed,

It is.  I felt it needed to be done, because there was so many rumours and BS floating around on other forums..  the whole thing became one big confusing mess full of myths :(

.. and on that note if Im wrong in my assumptions in the first couple of para's then the relevant people are free to poke me with a sharp pointed stick.
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AArdvark

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Re: G.INP / Retransmission - Questions to Openreach
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2015, 10:33:57 PM »

burakkucat raises a very interesting point about jsamuel's recent work into getting the ECI modems to work with upstream g.inp which has so far been successful.  The question is, if a member of our community can get f/w working so that the ECI's can perform upstream ReTX then why arent Openreach doing this?

Wouldn't the firmware have to come from ECI ?
I suspect that they would ask for a reasonable fee to do the work.
BT Openreach accepted the original firmware as it was/is, so there is a problem arguing about whose fault it is!
It would be quicker to go the custom route but un-supportable for BT Openreach  :(
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kitz

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Re: G.INP / Retransmission - Questions to Openreach
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2015, 10:42:41 PM »

Quote
Wouldn't the firmware have to come from ECI ?

Yes it would.   
My line of thinking was that if they were still purchasing these units then they should have enough clout to getting ECI to work on this with Lantiq.  -  In the same way the Lantiq worked with TP-link to get the TD-W9980's sorted. 
 
But as you say.. obviously much easier fix for them to adjust the Huawei DLM params... especially if they already had this planned for the ECI cabs anyway.
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burakkucat

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Re: G.INP / Retransmission - Questions to Openreach
« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2015, 11:36:29 PM »

We must remember that come next January (2016) Openreach will stop supplying modems for new VDSL2 installations. It will then be up to the CP/ISP to provide a satisfactory CPE.

From the following January (2017) Openreach will cease supporting the modems that they have previously installed.



Just thinking out loud . . . I wonder if there is a Kitizen who would be willing to install the OpenWrt software image onto an ECI B-FOCuS /r modem and send that modem to Kitz, our leader, for testing?  :-\
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AArdvark

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Re: G.INP / Retransmission - Questions to Openreach
« Reply #24 on: August 21, 2015, 01:31:04 AM »

We must remember that come next January (2016) Openreach will stop supplying modems for new VDSL2 installations. It will then be up to the CP/ISP to provide a satisfactory CPE.

From the following January (2017) Openreach will cease supporting the modems that they have previously installed.


It all makes sense now.
BT Openreach are not going to spent any money on this problem as by their timescales it is not worth the outlay.
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tommy45

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Re: G.INP / Retransmission - Questions to Openreach
« Reply #25 on: August 21, 2015, 01:44:01 AM »

Read it again mate.

Huawei cabinet users can get (if DLM warrants) G.INP upstream OR downstream.
ECI cabinet users can get (if DLM warrants) G.INP downstream ONLY.

Thats it.
I have done and i still see an error in what he has said, So far no G.inp enabled circuit on MDWS  has had this applied , And as said the MK1 G.inp enabled it on both US & DS , His answer imo was some what contradictory , perhaps he didn't really know ,he gave that impression also, chief engineer or not
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tommy45

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Re: G.INP / Retransmission - Questions to Openreach
« Reply #26 on: August 21, 2015, 01:48:16 AM »

We must remember that come next January (2016) Openreach will stop supplying modems for new VDSL2 installations. It will then be up to the CP/ISP to provide a satisfactory CPE.

From the following January (2017) Openreach will cease supporting the modems that they have previously installed.


It all makes sense now.
BT Openreach are not going to spent any money on this problem as by their timescales it is not worth the outlay.
It wouldn't come as any surprise at all to me , if that is the real reason for this, which it probablly is ,imo you are bang on the money
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: G.INP / Retransmission - Questions to Openreach
« Reply #27 on: August 21, 2015, 06:59:30 AM »

Read it again mate.

Huawei cabinet users can get (if DLM warrants) G.INP upstream OR downstream.
ECI cabinet users can get (if DLM warrants) G.INP downstream ONLY.

Thats it.
I have done and i still see an error in what he has said, So far no G.inp enabled circuit on MDWS  has had this applied , And as said the MK1 G.inp enabled it on both US & DS , His answer imo was some what contradictory , perhaps he didn't really know ,he gave that impression also, chief engineer or not

There is at least 1 user in the PlusNet Community Forum (11110_110) reporting a return of US G.INP on his connection (his stats also confirm it is active for both DS & US):-

https://community.plus.net/forum/index.php?topic=136287.msg1259737#msg1259737


EDIT:-

A couple of MDWS users' stats are now reporting G.INP on DS & US & one of them (condi) is reportedly connected to an ECI cabinet


« Last Edit: August 21, 2015, 07:08:09 AM by Bald_Eagle1 »
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GigabitEthernet

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Re: G.INP / Retransmission - Questions to Openreach
« Reply #28 on: August 21, 2015, 07:10:49 AM »

Somebody heard my frustration as G.INP is back on my line :D
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tbailey2

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Re: G.INP / Retransmission - Questions to Openreach
« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2015, 07:54:41 AM »

Quote
EDIT:-
A couple of MDWS users' stats are now reporting G.INP on DS & US & one of them (condi) is reportedly connected to an ECI cabinet


That can be wrong sometimes as has been noted before. It uses the BPT data mainly looking at whether Tone 32 is there or not (it isn't on an ECI cab) plus elsewhere as a double check as there is no other data available to MDWS for the info. In this case, he has no tones at all until 33 and others missing as well so it's likely it is wrong. His BPT Graph show black bars which is an indication of not matching the bandplan for the stated cab.

The only way round this would be to upload some additional definitive data but that raises more problems although I think I can see a way round it in the back of my mind.

Visually the high end tones do look like a Huawei for condi.
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