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[olwalh]

Over the past few days I have noticed sluggish performance (the speed test is ok, but it takes two or three attempts to load webpages); I had a quick look at the logs, however I cannot claim to fully understand these things, I did notice a number of upstream Total ES (over 1000 is 5 days) so I reset the stats below are the results after ~48 hours.

BT performed a line test and claim not to see the same errors, the engineer thought they should see the same on their end. Is this anything to worry about?

I am using a Billion 8800NL should I consider going back to the ECI OR modem or the HH5?

adsl info --stats
adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 25437 Kbps, Downstream rate = 78007 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 77471 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        6.4             15.0
Attn(dB):        15.8            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        12.6            6.7

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           -6              26
B:              243             237
M:              1               1
T:              0               42
R:              10              16
S:              0.1003          0.3781
L:              20261           5374
D:              8               1
I:              254             127
N:              254             254
Q:              8               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                63              0
TxQueue:                21              0
G.INP Framing:          18              0
G.INP lookback:         21              0
RRC bits:               0               24
                        Bearer 1
MSGc:           186             -6
B:              0               0
M:              2               0
T:              2               0
R:              16              0
S:              5.3333          0.0000
L:              48              0
D:              3               0
I:              32              0
N:              32              0
Q:              0               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                0               0
TxQueue:                0               0
G.INP Framing:          0               0
G.INP lookback:         0               0
RRC bits:               0               0

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            0               156814
OHFErr:         0               212
RS:             2393910192              3160740
RSCorr:         12123           757
RSUnCorr:       0               0
                        Bearer 1
OHF:            10481806                0
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             125781665               0
RSCorr:         22              0
RSUnCorr:       0               0

                        Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:         154952          0
rtx_c:          1108            0
rtx_uc:         0               0

                        G.INP Counters
LEFTRS:         13              0
minEFTR:        77479           0
errFreeBits:    198963036               0

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    3608416480              0
Data Cells:     330706816               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

                        Bearer 1
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    0               0
Data Cells:     0               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             0               94
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
AS:             168394

                        Bearer 0
INP:            49.00           0.00
INPRein:        0.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            3.98
OR:             0.01            64.22
AgR:            77550.36        20063.54

                        Bearer 1
INP:            4.00            0.00
INPRein:        4.00            0.00
delay:          3               0
PER:            16.06           0.01
OR:             95.62           0.01
AgR:            95.62   0.01

Bitswap:        3416/3419               88/88

Total time = 1 days 22 hours 46 min 35 sec
FEC:            12123           757
CRC:            0               212
ES:             0               94
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 15 minutes time = 1 min 35 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            8               2
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 1 day time = 22 hours 46 min 35 sec
FEC:            6445            438
CRC:            0               101
ES:             0               47
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC:            5678            319
CRC:            0               111
ES:             0               47
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Since Link time = 1 days 22 hours 46 min 34 sec
FEC:            12123           757
CRC:            0               212
ES:             0               94
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
 >

[Weaver]

Is there a chance this might be a DNS reliability problem?

Can test this by changing your choice of dns servers to 8.8.8.8 (Google), or OpenDns (would need to look them up).

[olwalh]

Is there a chance this might be a DNS reliability problem?

Can test this by changing your choice of dns servers to 8.8.8.8 (Google), or OpenDns (would need to look them up).

I was initially thinking the same so Wednesday evening I changed the DNS servers to as suggested to 8.8.8.8 (Google) and 4.2.2.5 (OpenDNS)

Primary DNS Server   8.8.8.8
Secondary DNS Server   4.2.2.5

This appeared to improve issue marginally, but the problem continues, I am just unsure if these line stats indicate an issue with the line or the modem

Rate (Kbps)   77471   19999
B (# of bytes in Mux Data Frame)   243   237
M (# of Mux Data Frames in an RS codeword)   1   1
T (# of Mux Data Frames in an OH sub-frame)   0   42
R (# of redundancy bytes in the RS codeword)   10   16
S (# of data symbols over which the RS code word spans)   0.1003   0.3781
L (# of bits transmitted in each data symbol)   20261   5374
D (interleaver depth)   8   1
I (interleaver block size in bytes)   254   127
N (RS codeword size)   254   254
Delay (msec)   0   0
INP (DMT symbol)   49.00   0.00
OH Frames   0   0
OH Frame Errors   0   225
RS Words   2658542856   618910
RS Correctable Errors   12446   846
RS Uncorrectable Errors   0   0
HEC Errors   0   0
OCD Errors   0   0
LCD Errors   0   0
Total Cells   305820294   0
Data Cells   333562194   0
Bit Errors   0   0
Total ES   0   104
Total SES   0   0
Total UAS   0   0

[Weaver]

I can't see how this could be a problem with lower-level layers, as TCP would simply resend packets if problems with your DSL modem caused packet loss. TCP retransmissions would cover that problem up, things would just seem sluggish _but no more_.

Try the speed testers
    speedof.me
and
    sod.ms/fast
for me.

Another thought - do you have a software firewall?
It would be worth checking reliability of firewalls out.

Third thought, if there were an attack in progress on your ISP servers then if it were a reflection attack with spoofed src addresses then this could upset your firewall. (I have personally seen this once.) Would be worth taking a look at firewall logs if poss.

[Weaver]

Last thought -is your own ip address changing? If you disconnected from the ISP (for whatever reason, unreliable line or who knows what) and your ISP is evil and gives you a variable  (external) IP address which is different on reconnection, then all your open TCP connections ought to fail. (This is why not having a static IP address from an ISP is a disaster.)

[olwalh]

I can't see how this could be a problem with lower-level layers, as TCP would simply resend packets if problems with your DSL modem caused packet loss. TCP retransmissions would cover that problem up, things would just seem sluggish _but no more_.

Try the speed testers
    speedof.me
and
    sod.ms/fast
for me.

Another thought - do you have a software firewall?
It would be worth checking reliability of firewalls out.

Third thought, if there were an attack in progress on your ISP servers then if it were a reflection attack with spoofed src addresses then this could upset your firewall. (I have personally seen this once.) Would be worth taking a look at firewall logs if poss.

I get the following results

speedof.me

http://speedof.me/show.php?img=150731040453-95644.png

sod.ms/fast
Your link from us appears to be about 57.602038Mb/s for IP transfer. ATM/sync rate will be higher for broadband.

speedtest.net gives the following
http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/4547008364

I have a few different PC's along with and Smart Phone and Tablet, surfing was equally sluggish on all device's (Every third or so webpage would need to be refreshed before loading).

I also disabled the Firewall and Anti Virus on the PC's, but this made no difference.

I have a static IP (but not for much longer as the service is transferring to BT next week) one of the reasons why I would like to ensure that the US ES errors (currently averaging 15 per hour) is not suggestive of a line or hardware fault as my experience of BT residential support is not great.

[Weaver]

A rubbish speedof.me result (relatively), could possibly indicate IP packet loss. In my experience this server actually reads _high_, although unfortunately there are other possible explanations.

The static ip rules out the TCP failure idea then. I have no explanation for why it sometimes takes you _several goes_ to load a web page other than the under-attack idea. Firewall logs, that's where I would go next.

I have seen the “several goes” phenomenon myself before, and apart from DNS failure, attack and catastrophic packet loss meaning TCP timeout, I have seen occurences where I have not had the tools or time to pinpoint the cause.

[olwalh]

A rubbish speedof.me result (relatively), could possibly indicate IP packet loss. In my experience this server actually reads _high_, although unfortunately there are other possible explanations.

The static ip rules out the TCP failure idea then. I have no explanation for why it sometimes takes you _several goes_ to load a web page other than the under-attack idea. Firewall logs, that's where I would go next.

I have seen the “several goes” phenomenon myself before, and apart from DNS failure, attack and catastrophic packet loss meaning TCP timeout, I have seen occurences where I have not had the tools or time to pinpoint the cause.

Very many thanks for help, is there anything in the line stats that would concern you ?
I am considering switching from the Billion to the HH5 next week to see if that improves the situation but this means that the Vodafone SS will stop working as it does not play nicely with the HH.

[Weaver]

Others on kitz would be far more able to comment, but the US errored seconds result though not ideal isn't frequent enough to cause the page reload thing.

There are various things you could try next (guessing in the dark). In a not very logical order, a different modem (not router), new filtered faceplate microfilter, go straight into the test socket obviously (need to remove any phone and all extension wiring), better rj11-rj11 cable, investigate in-house wiring to master socket (interference pickup and poor quality or over-long wiring).

Have we checked to rule out a wifi problem?

I wouldn't be amazed if there are two problems here, why? Often the case when things make no sense.

Apart from improving wiring and changing modems as far as investigating the US ES result goes, perhaps a greater US interleave depth is essential because of internal or external RF sporadic interference.

Ultimately, if changing kit and improving filters and wiring has done, it would come down to changing to an outstanding ISP who is capable of testing and diagnosing the issues fully.

[olwalh]

I have an HG612 3B that I purchased a while back (over a year ago) and never used, if I plug this in will it automatically obtain the latest firmware that support G.INP.

[roseway]

I have an HG612 3B that I purchased a while back (over a year ago) and never used, if I plug this in will it automatically obtain the latest firmware that support G.INP.

Probably, yes, but it will be the locked-down BT version of the firmware, so you won't be able to get the full stats. A better option would be to upgrade it yourself to the firmware descibed here: http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,14262.0.html . Full details are here: http://www.kitz.co.uk/routers/hg612unlock.htm

[Weaver]

Pardon my complete ignorance of these modems, but how do you stop BT from interfering with them over the network?

[GigabitEthernet]

The Wolfy releases have TR-069 disabled so they do not "call home" for software updates.

[lf2k]

I'm not convinced that TR-069 is blocked.

I believe the BTAgent that handles the auto-upgrade operates on a VLAN marked 301 and this blocked by a firewall rule in the HW firmware.

If you upgrade the HG612 to the latest HW firmware, as per roseways links, it won't auto update subsequently; it's good for G.INP out to the box and doesn't need any additional updates.