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Author Topic: Now here's a thing  (Read 3450 times)

Brian Coat

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Now here's a thing
« on: July 29, 2015, 11:38:28 AM »

No where's a thing.

I am about 3 km from a fibre cabinet and thanks to past help from this forum, plus my trusty ZyXel SBG 3300N I've enjoyed >15 mbps download for a few years. Not enough to play Universe Of Death or whatever with someone in Hawaii but fine for a family of Netflix addicts..

The other day it dropped to 8 mbps and I saw that ip profile had dropped to 8 mbps and did not respond to forced resync, despite >13dB SNR margin, which implied a max supportable data rate > 17 mbps.

So I went through the BT Level 1 / Level 2 / Engineer Call dance with all its "have you done this and that, please reset this and that".

When the technician turned up (BT Modem and Homehub now re-installed) I explained all this and he said he could only see 6 dB SNR margin.

I persuaded him to reset it to remove the cap and the speed rose to 9 mbps, on the BT kit.

"Good, the cap's gone", I said. Now lets try it on the ZyXel.

Remember, the BT kit synched at 9 mbps where it showed 6 db margin, (as you'd expect: I think it adapts to that margin).

Plugged in the ZyXel box: Ta Da ! 18 mbps, all back to normal. 6 dB SNR margin but a far higher data rate.
Error levels etc all acceptable.

This begs two questions.

1) Why did BTW system cap the ip profile: intermittent/one-off line noise event?

2) Why does another (costlier) modem work so much better?

A-B-A comparison to the BT kit consistently shows it to be way faster.

Interesting, eh?

PS I do not work for ZyXel (!) and I think their documentation is poor. This box can do ANYTHING - if you can figure out how to ask.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2015, 11:41:01 AM by Brian Coat »
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jid

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Re: Now here's a thing
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2015, 12:23:00 PM »

This begs two questions.

1) Why did BTW system cap the ip profile: intermittent/one-off line noise event?

2) Why does another (costlier) modem work so much better?


So the first point you're right, likely a one off event of noise on the line that led to DLM putting you on a banded profile for whatever reason - probably a very high ES burst which led to a forced resync by DLM which would have applied the banded profile.

As for why the other modem works better, this is a common thing on the Forum. Newer modems have newer chipsets, so will manage to sync at higher speeds. What manufacturer was your BT Modem? The increase of speed you are seeing is a lot for a change of modem, and my hunch is you're using an ECI modem which doesn't support G.INP, but your cabinet and your Zyxel modem do support G.INP. G.INP may however not be the cause and it could be the newer chipset, but would need to see your stats to confirm.

Could you put up some stats from your Zyxel?
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Kind Regards
Jamie

BT FTTP - 75meg | Sky Q |  Bridgend Weather

Brian Coat

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Re: Now here's a thing
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2015, 11:23:46 PM »

I'll post some tomorrow.
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jid

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Re: Now here's a thing
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2015, 12:44:35 AM »

I'll post some tomorrow.

Would be great :)
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Kind Regards
Jamie

BT FTTP - 75meg | Sky Q |  Bridgend Weather

kitz

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Re: Now here's a thing
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2015, 12:02:59 PM »

I'll concur and say likely noise burst.   The banded profile does have the effect of increasing your target SNRm.  I was banded in Oct last year after a line fault which resulted in an SNRm of 9dB only mine was on my upstream.

My Zyxel gives me circa 7Mbps more than lantiq based chipsets, but its quite possible that g.inp mentioned by jamie could have knocked off even more. You can check if you are on a Huawei cab here.

It may be worthwhile you putting DSLstats on for a while to monitor your line, just to rule out that the noise bursts werent a one off and that the line is now back to normal.   
After a DLM reset your line will be on open profile for 2 days, and after that start applying profiles as/if needed. 
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Brian Coat

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Re: Now here's a thing
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2015, 04:00:50 PM »

Sorry that took a while - real life interrupted me fr a few days ...

I'll set DslStats running as suggested ...

Thanks.

BC         

      
============================================================================
    VDSL Training Status:   Showtime
                    Mode:   VDSL2 Annex B
            VDSL Profile:   Profile 17a
            Traffic Type:   PTM Mode
             Link Uptime:   1 day: 9 hours: 41 minutes
============================================================================
       VDSL Port Details       Upstream         Downstream
               Line Rate:      0.522 Mbps       15.435 Mbps
    Actual Net Data Rate:      0.503 Mbps       15.391 Mbps
          Trellis Coding:         ON                ON
              SNR Margin:        5.5 dB            6.1 dB
            Actual Delay:          0 ms              8 ms
          Transmit Power:        5.1 dBm          11.3 dBm
           Receive Power:       -5.0 dBm         -27.7 dBm
              Actual INP:        0.0 symbols       3.0 symbols
       Total Attenuation:       10.1 dB           39.0 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate:      0.491 Mbps       18.299 Mbps
============================================================================
      VDSL Band Status    U0      U1      U2      U3      D1      D2      D3
  Line Attenuation(dB): 10.1    67.3    69.0     N/A    32.3    90.3    102.3   
Signal Attenuation(dB): 10.1     N/A     N/A     N/A    39.0     N/A     N/A   
        SNR Margin(dB):  5.5     N/A     N/A     N/A     6.1     N/A     N/A   
   Transmit Power(dBm):  5.1     N/A     N/A     N/A    11.3     N/A     N/A   
============================================================================

            VDSL Counters

           Downstream        Upstream
Since Link time = 41 min 1 sec
FEC:      21613867      0
CRC:      5634      5
ES:      1224      6
SES:      5      1
UAS:      0      0
LOS:      0      1
LOF:      0      1
LOM:      0      0
Latest 15 minutes time = 13 min 24 sec
FEC:      2516      0
CRC:      0      0
ES:      0      0
SES:      0      0
UAS:      0      0
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:      3155      0
CRC:      2      0
ES:      1      0
SES:      0      0
UAS:      0      0
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Latest 1 day time = 1 hours 28 min 24 sec
FEC:      26427      0
CRC:      4      0
ES:      2      0
SES:      0      0
UAS:      0      0
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC:      18879869      0
CRC:      4744      5
ES:      984      5
SES:      4      0
UAS:      0      0
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Total time = 1 days 1 hours 28 min 24 sec
FEC:      483943857      0
CRC:      813063      24
ES:      53434      40
SES:      9364      2
UAS:      6095      60
LOS:      2      2
LOF:      14      2
LOM:      3      0
===========================================================================
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jid

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Re: Now here's a thing
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2015, 06:38:53 PM »

Thanks for the stats. They show G.INP is not enabled, and you are a fair way from the cabinet.

There are a lot of ES on the line too, so it may indicate some noise, get the DSL Stats running so we can see how the SNR Margin is holding up :)
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Kind Regards
Jamie

BT FTTP - 75meg | Sky Q |  Bridgend Weather

Brian Coat

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Re: Now here's a thing
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2015, 09:51:38 AM »

Update: It has been working fine.

With IP profile settled at about 15 MBPS down, the SNR ratio varies between 6 db and 8 db (daytime), which is what you would expect.

For me , the number of ES is acceptable for a high data rate miles (literally) from the cabinet.

Thanks to those contributors who suggested potential causes or things to check.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2015, 07:01:29 AM by Brian Coat »
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