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Author Topic: ZyXEL SBG3300 and VMG8924 comparison to be shared  (Read 3564 times)

loveextasy

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ZyXEL SBG3300 and VMG8924 comparison to be shared
« on: August 01, 2015, 09:03:45 PM »

Hi,

I just would like to share something with you on my experience of the 2 routers.

I was really struglling with my line initially when I had the "Battery Contact" problem (which I presume some of you may recall my post of this), and I hoped that this problem could be solved if I buy a new router (it hasn't been confirmed of a Battery Fault). After a few days' research I went for the VMG8924. One of the reason was that GbE is a must have for me but 8800NL only got one, and 8800AXL is not available at that time.

Then the situation is getting worse. Previously I was using TG582n and the line dropped about once or twice a day. After I installed this router it dropped an average of 4 times a day. Not only that but the reconnection time is about 5-10 mins. unlike the TG582n which seems to be less than 1 min.

Some days later I had an BT engineer came and sorted out the phone line problem, but my connection is still dropping with VMG8924. at first I did not realise that it could be the router#s fault but I have had another 2 engineer came and failed to find any issue with my line. One of them is a phone engineer and the other is a broadband engineer. So I had an assumption that it could be my router's fault...

I then switched the TG582n back and it went pretty stable for a day, with some burst CRC errors from DSLStats but line remained connected....Was keen to test if the connection is really OK so put VMG8924 back in and connection started dropping again....

After all these I am almost certain that it may be router's problem....The DSLStats monitored this router for a while and with each CRC burst the connection woudl absolutely drop, so just guessing that this router might be good on a good line but definitely not for mine....

I rang ZyXEL's customer service and all they suggested was trying to use the latest firmware but no luck....finally I agreed with them to switch for a SBG3300...

The reason is that, I have seen someone is reporting that 63168 SoC is not good at handling with errors, and SBG3300 seems to have a 6368 SoC which is the same as HG612 and that modem is believed the most stable by many people not only this forum but a lot of other communities....

So, till now 2 days passed and the connection seems to be OK, with some CRC burst (as per below, a buest @ 10:26 but connection is OK at that time).

By the way, I am with a connection of ADSL with a max speed of 3Mbps, distance from Exchange is about 2 km and to cabinet is about 700-800m

In summary, I totally agree the view of that BCM83168 is not good in handling errors, expecially on a long/unstable line, but 6368 should be much better than it.

Also, I would like to praise ZyXEL's customer service. Although they did not come to a solution to make the 8924 work for me, they are still good trying to help, as they accepted my assumption of difference between 6368 and 63168 and agreed to exchange an SBG3300 for me.

Sorry for such a long post, but hope this would help someone who has a similiar situation as mine....

Regards.
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kitz

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Re: ZyXEL SBG3300 and VMG8924 comparison to be shared
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2015, 02:42:04 PM »

Thank you for taking the time to post your findings.

Out of interest did the VMG8924 give you a higher sync speed?  One of the things that I have noticed with most of the 63168 SoC based router is they do tend to push the line a bit more and therefore be more volatile when it comes to lines that experience certain types of noise. There's even been a discussion that perhaps these more modern chipsets expect retransmission to be available for noise handling,  but that could be a total red-herring.

I think it purely is down to the type of noise that the line experiences.  When I had a line fault last year that was generating lots of errors, I put the HG612 back on for a short while, but since the errors were even more with the HG612 and its 6368 chipset, I soon switched back to my VMG8324.  So for my own line the 83168 performs better than 6368 chips. 

The fact that the 2 different chipsets do seem to vary when it comes to performance (line rate & error handling) leads me to believe that there definitely is something in the noise burst type theory.  Certain chipsets (ie Lantiq) seem very good at noise handling and are rock steady, but for me and many others at least they cant match speed performance.

Even pre-vdsl days there were routers that had a reputation for being very good for high performance lines (eg the ST585) but rubbish on short lines.  Conversely routers such as the 2700 HG would be brilliant for very long noisy lines..  but absolute garbage on shorter lines not allowing maximum sync (eg it took my line down to something like 17Mb compared to 24Mb from a ST), so there really must be something in the speed v error handling trade-off and sometimes you do just have to suck it and see to find out which type of modem works best for your line.


The SBG3300 is a nice piece of kit and what I would have gone for myself if my budget at the time allowed, so its good to see that Zyxel have been proactive with you on this and replaced with a different model.    :thumbs:
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loveextasy

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Re: ZyXEL SBG3300 and VMG8924 comparison to be shared
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2015, 03:14:20 PM »

Thanks for your interest in such a long post  ;)

Out of interest did the VMG8924 give you a higher sync speed?  One of the things that I have noticed with most of the 63168 SoC based router is they do tend to push the line a bit more and therefore be more volatile when it comes to lines that experience certain types of noise. There's even been a discussion that perhaps these more modern chipsets expect retransmission to be available for noise handling,  but that could be a total red-herring.

I think both of them are give a similiar speed, ie.e 8924 for 3072k and 3300for 3008k, a slight difference but should not be significant. Interestingly, the TG582n gives a lot less of 2880k though.....


The fact that the 2 different chipsets do seem to vary when it comes to performance (line rate & error handling) leads me to believe that there definitely is something in the noise burst type theory.  Certain chipsets (ie Lantiq) seem very good at noise handling and are rock steady, but for me and many others at least they cant match speed performance.

I think I have used one of the Lantiq based routers which is the Fritz!Box 7360 (think so but not quite sure), and I was having serious problem with my line using it. When I use the landline to call, or even someone called in, the connection immediately dropped....but this kind of problem never exists in all of the 3 BCM based routers, TG582n, 8924 or 3300.

Even pre-vdsl days there were routers that had a reputation for being very good for high performance lines (eg the ST585) but rubbish on short lines.  Conversely routers such as the 2700 HG would be brilliant for very long noisy lines..  but absolute garbage on shorter lines not allowing maximum sync (eg it took my line down to something like 17Mb compared to 24Mb from a ST), so there really must be something in the speed v error handling trade-off and sometimes you do just have to suck it and see to find out which type of modem works best for your line.

Sorry forgot to mention at the beginning of my post, but I am on a very long ADSL line, which gives me an average speed of 2.5Mbps, the engineer said that my cabnet is about 2.5 km from exchange, and my house is 700-800m from the cabinet...

The SBG3300 is a nice piece of kit and what I would have gone for myself if my budget at the time allowed, so its good to see that Zyxel have been proactive with you on this and replaced with a different model.    :thumbs:

Yeah thanks for this  :cool: I am quite happy with them about this as well. Unfortunately it dropped once this morning by the SBG3300 which gives a retrain reason 4, not quite sure what it means but I think it may due to the broadband maintainance during the night....

Anyway, I am happy with it ;D Although I do not have any clue for how to set it up properly including all the security and VPN functions, but stabilisation is the most important thing to me!
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PhilipD

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Re: ZyXEL SBG3300 and VMG8924 comparison to be shared
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2015, 03:21:18 PM »

Hi

In theory the ADSL/VDSL parts in those two SoC's are exactly the same, although they may have different driver versions.  In practice there will be some variation depending on how the other electronics that interface with the chips are designed.

The 5 to 10 minute wait for the 8924 seems to suggest it was rebooting, which firmware version did they give you to try?  Where able to see the box while this was happening, i.e. if you noticed all the LEDs go off and then the power light flash for a while it indicates a reboot, this will drop your ADSL line of course as a consequence.

Regards

Phil
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loveextasy

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Re: ZyXEL SBG3300 and VMG8924 comparison to be shared
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2015, 03:29:20 PM »

Hi

In theory the ADSL/VDSL parts in those two SoC's are exactly the same, although they may have different driver versions.  In practice there will be some variation depending on how the other electronics that interface with the chips are designed.

The 5 to 10 minute wait for the 8924 seems to suggest it was rebooting, which firmware version did they give you to try?  Where able to see the box while this was happening, i.e. if you noticed all the LEDs go off and then the power light flash for a while it indicates a reboot, this will drop your ADSL line of course as a consequence.

Regards

Phil

Hi,

I dont think it was rebooting though, as I can see from DSLStats that the CRC errors are still high, and can log on to the web interface to see the router, and it gave me an error message that 8924 cannot log on to internet but the internal network is working fine, I can access my NAS.....

I tried 7C0, 8C0 and 10C0 which should solve the reboot issue anyway...

Really confusing and annoying with it :(
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GigabitEthernet

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Re: ZyXEL SBG3300 and VMG8924 comparison to be shared
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2015, 04:51:37 PM »

May I ask where you purchased the ZyXEL VMG8924 from?

I'm afraid I cannot offer anything else about your line that others haven't already said :-\
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loveextasy

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Re: ZyXEL SBG3300 and VMG8924 comparison to be shared
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2015, 04:54:50 PM »

May I ask where you purchased the ZyXEL VMG8924 from?

I'm afraid I cannot offer anything else about your line that others haven't already said :-\

from Stuff-UK
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