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Author Topic: Bt FTTC high latency Help  (Read 13727 times)

sharpz44

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Bt FTTC high latency Help
« on: July 05, 2015, 07:24:53 PM »

Hi, looking at my line stats on billion 8800 axl in bridge connnected to asus Ac87U I am getting high pings, could some look at the stats for me please.
ode   VDSL2
Traffic Type   PTM
Status   Up
Link Power State   L0
Downstream   Upstream
Line Coding (Trellis)   On   On
SNR Margin (dB)   3.8   1.8
Attenuation (dB)   10.2   0.0
Output Power (dBm)   13.6   -5.7
Attainable Rate (Kbps)   90624   15751
Rate (Kbps)   79994   20000
B (# of bytes in Mux Data Frame)   55   236
M (# of Mux Data Frames in an RS codeword)   1   1
T (# of Mux Data Frames in an OH sub-frame)   64   5
R (# of redundancy bytes in the RS codeword)   14   16
S (# of data symbols over which the RS code word spans)   0.0223   0.3771
L (# of bits transmitted in each data symbol)   25152   5410
D (interleaver depth)   1419   1
I (interleaver block size in bytes)   70   255
N (RS codeword size)   70   255
Delay (msec)   8   0
INP (DMT symbol)   3.00   0.00
OH Frames   132993813   23115130
OH Frame Errors   45   1449
RS Words   4059798291   1886065
RS Correctable Errors   25829719   38252
RS Uncorrectable Errors   1812   0
HEC Errors   567   0
OCD Errors   0   0
LCD Errors   0   0
Total Cells   475280030   0
Data Cells   241192040   0
Bit Errors   0   0
Total ES   7   964
Total SES   0   2
Total UAS   28   28
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Dray

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Re: Bt FTTC high latency Help
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2015, 07:28:54 PM »

Can you post a tracert to bbc.co.uk please?
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burakkucat

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Re: Bt FTTC high latency Help
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2015, 08:23:23 PM »

I am rather surprised to see "3.8   1.8" as the DS/US SNRM, respectively.  :-\
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sharpz44

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Re: Bt FTTC high latency Help
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2015, 09:37:07 PM »

well on a tracert its 17-25 , cant copy the tracert have no clipboard, wht surprised at SNR I am close to exchange.

Thanks
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burakkucat

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Re: Bt FTTC high latency Help
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2015, 09:56:02 PM »

Your distance from the exchange is not relevant for a VDSL2 (FTTC) circuit.

Normally, the SNRM will be at 6 dB or higher for both DS & US of a FTTC circuit.

I also note that the synchronisation rate for the US (20000 kbps) is currently higher than the attainable rate for US (15751 kbps). When considered with the very low value of the US SNRM (1.8 dB), it makes me think that there is severe service-affecting disturber coupling into your circuit.
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sharpz44

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Re: Bt FTTC high latency Help
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2015, 10:04:55 PM »

Thanks for reply, is there a way to fix this,also I was looking at the high interleaved depth and that's what made me think the ping was bad,not very good at understanding the stats,but one thing I know is when gaming it's not right,would it be a good idea to try and get BT to re sync the line ..thanks for your help
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Dray

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Re: Bt FTTC high latency Help
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2015, 10:05:24 PM »

Is 17ms bad?
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sharpz44

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Re: Bt FTTC high latency Help
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2015, 10:09:38 PM »

Well it was at 146ms when I did a BT wholesale test and that what made me think something was wrong,also seems poor online gaming for some reason, not sure how good the wholsale test is after doing the tracert
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N0STIE

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Re: Bt FTTC high latency Help
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2015, 10:47:30 PM »

Is 17ms bad?

17ms to the server from the same country is pretty bad tho, especially for fibre optic. I am pretty sure people from abroad, mayble netherlands or germany get same or lower latency to bbc.co.uk.
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lf2k

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Re: Bt FTTC high latency Help
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2015, 11:14:33 AM »

I am rather surprised to see "3.8   1.8" as the DS/US SNRM, respectively.  :-\
I believe (but don't quote me) that certain modems allow you to override this with a "stability/speed" slider, but the way I read the OP was that the Billion was playing modem and the Asus was handling PPPoE (I might have misread).

I would have thought the error counts (which in turn are driving the DLM to force interleaving/higher latency) are a direct result of running the line below 6dB.

Case in point: I usually have 6.0 - 6.3 SNRM over the course of the day - this dropped to 5.n over the past few days with all of the warm weather.  My Traffic lights were showing Yellow on MDWS and my actual speed was higher than my attainable.  Yesterday the DLM kicked in put me back to 6.2, and dropped my downstream to 49000 (attainable 55000).  All of my traffic lights are green now (and presumably the speed will creep back up when the weather cools down).

I guess the question I have is why hasn't the DLM corrected the OPs SNRM to something a little less error prone?

Question to sharpz44: have you tweaked any settings on the modem, or is it even possible with the equipment/firmware you're running?
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lf2k

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Re: Bt FTTC high latency Help
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2015, 11:21:23 AM »

Is 17ms bad?

17ms to the server from the same country is pretty bad tho, especially for fibre optic.
That's OK depending on where you are in the UK - we all know that BT (for Infinity products) route their traffic all over the place, other ISPs may be better.

Add in a couple of ms for wifi, firewall, QoS etc on the home end, the fact 8ms is being added for interleaving and I'd say this was a pretty good line - just need to get the errors down so that it isn't interleaved - this'll get it to <10ms.
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kitz

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Re: Bt FTTC high latency Help
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2015, 11:42:08 AM »

As has already been mentioned, distance to the cab or exchange is of little relevance.   You are talking just meters and its kilometers that add on the latency.. so it depends where in the UK you are located.  Im up in the NW and until fairly recently then 16ms was considered the average time to get from the NW to London.   

BTwholesale have recently been rejigging their network and bringing in MSE bRAS which shaves an extra couple of seconds off that time.

The other thing to mention is that we have been noticing that customers of BTretail do seem to experience slightly higher latency than some of the other UK ISPs :(



From your stats you obviously have interleaving and error correction (INP) applied so that will account for additional delay.  I would not class 17ms bad for a line which has interleaving applied.


I would not let that line run at SNR margins of 3.8 and 1.8 and suggest you perform a resync to bring your SNRm back to the default 6dB.  Its the low SNRm which will be causing errors to accrue, which is what will make DLM apply interleaving.  When errors are generated then this is when you can sometimes see latency very briefly start to lag and may account for the higher latency you say you sometimes see.

I know the line is currently running at 20Mbps upstream and a resync could give you a lower speed, but if you dont do it, then DLM will do it for you and add error protection.   

I'd also be monitoring/graphing your SNRm to see how much it varies over the course of the day. Based on your downstream atten then you should easily be able to manage 20Mbps and if you cant, then its suggestive of faulty internal wiring or a line fault.

If you do a quite line test can you hear any noise?
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sharpz44

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Re: Bt FTTC high latency Help
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2015, 05:16:52 PM »

Thanks for the advice,the billion was never tweaked and also my wiring is a high speed cable with all extensions removed from main socket, those stats were taken after 43 days up time, also I updated the billion firmware and the down sync dropped to 73,had some hassle connected to my asus again.? So unplugged it as was frustrated and put openreach back in, so today decided to try again and now the billion does not even get DSL , so it's getting binned and back to my eci modem, I shall ring BT and ask them to reset my connection
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sharpz44

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Re: Bt FTTC high latency Help
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2015, 05:51:44 PM »

So contact BT, got put through to a level 2 guy who agreed that the Snr was incorrect and to reset it,also told me that interleaved would be reomoved as part of the Snr reset , so will see what happens, really appreciate the help from you guys.. Thanks
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Dray

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Re: Bt FTTC high latency Help
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2015, 07:14:32 PM »

I'm not sure BT can do a reset over the phone, I think it needs an engineer to attend and do it.
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