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Author Topic: Interleaved or fastpath?  (Read 49585 times)

kitz

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Re: Interleaved or fastpath?
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2015, 10:33:16 PM »

I dont know why but latency with BT does seem to be higher than with most other ISPs.   

Im not certain.... but Im quite sure their habit of redirecting custom DNS and barefruit wont be helping.   For some reason it doesn't seem to be too unusual these days to see latency of 18ms even on FastPath :/
 
The hops with circa 20ms will all be to London.   The 2nd hop which times out is likely to be the bRAS which has ICMP disabled.  As this is likely to be nearer your home town, then if it did respond, it would likely be much lower.


Im also in the NW, but with latency to london of circa 11ms via Plusnet. 
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MikeZ

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Re: Interleaved or fastpath?
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2015, 11:48:14 AM »

Just moved to BT Infinity 1 and I'm getting 6ms to the first hop in BT's network, 13ms to bbc.co.uk. Fastpath, of course...

I'm not using the HH5 and I'm not using BT's DNS servers (nor am I being redirected to them).
« Last Edit: June 19, 2015, 11:50:39 AM by MikeZ »
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N0STIE

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Re: Interleaved or fastpath?
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2015, 01:27:52 PM »

MikeZ, no one uses BT's DNS, I am using google's DNS but I think it doesn't affect pings in any way.

How far are you from a FTTC cabinet? Are you getting full speed of Infinity 1? Where about in the UK are you? Can you post trace route to bbc.co.uk?

Cheers.
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kitz

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Re: Interleaved or fastpath?
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2015, 04:17:23 PM »

Distance to the cab shouldn't really make much difference, because we are talking meters rather than miles. 
6-7 ms to first hop (bRAS) is about what I'd expect for a fast path connection.
From bRAS to London obviously depends upon geographic location.
ISP gateway to the BBC should only add on another 1ms as most ISP's will have direct peering with the Beeb.

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N0STIE

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Re: Interleaved or fastpath?
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2015, 05:01:34 PM »

yeah, but for example me getting 20ms on 1st hop actually tells I can't be on fastpath.
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kitz

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Re: Interleaved or fastpath?
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2015, 05:18:17 PM »

Can't see what your first hop on the BTnetwork is as it looks like your particular bRAS is configured to ignore ICMP -  (some of them are)

Quote
2 * * * Request timed out.
This is likely where you will have entered the CORE network

The mention of faraday at hop 6 - is an indication of where you exit off the CORE, but looks like you are bouncing around several routers at this particular point.   The fact they are all 19/20ms indicates those routers are all in close proximity, probably in the same co-lo.
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MikeZ

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Re: Interleaved or fastpath?
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2015, 07:49:06 PM »

MikeZ, no one uses BT's DNS, I am using google's DNS but I think it doesn't affect pings in any way.

How far are you from a FTTC cabinet? Are you getting full speed of Infinity 1? Where about in the UK are you? Can you post trace route to bbc.co.uk?

Cheers.

No, DNS isn't particularly relevant as far as pings and traceroutes go. You can see my stats on MDWS (MikeZ) - I'm getting the full speed for 40/10. I'm in Northamptonshire.

Code: [Select]
traceroute to bbc.co.uk (212.58.244.20), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
 1  192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1)  0.300 ms  0.275 ms  0.272 ms
 2  * * *
 3  * * *
 4  217.41.217.45 (217.41.217.45)  6.210 ms  6.259 ms  6.259 ms
 5  212.140.235.74 (212.140.235.74)  9.694 ms  10.160 ms  10.179 ms
 6  31.55.164.221 (31.55.164.221)  9.614 ms  9.353 ms  9.315 ms
 7  31.55.164.109 (31.55.164.109)  9.987 ms  8.901 ms  8.870 ms
 8  109.159.248.207 (109.159.248.207)  8.790 ms  8.390 ms  8.399 ms
 9  core2-te0-3-0-2.ealing.ukcore.bt.net (109.159.248.148)  14.985 ms  15.022 ms  14.748 ms
10  peer2-xe4-0-1.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net (109.159.252.39)  12.832 ms  13.112 ms  12.921 ms
11  194.74.65.42 (194.74.65.42)  12.820 ms  12.863 ms  12.850 ms
12  * * *
13  * * *
14  ae0.er01.telhc.bbc.co.uk (132.185.254.109)  13.322 ms  12.796 ms  13.487 ms
15  132.185.255.149 (132.185.255.149)  14.114 ms  13.864 ms  13.877 ms
16  fmt-vip71.telhc.bbc.co.uk (212.58.244.20)  13.500 ms  13.331 ms  13.894 ms

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N0STIE

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Re: Interleaved or fastpath?
« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2015, 08:07:57 PM »

I was getting about 14-16ms on the 3 first hopes a few weeks ago but my final ping was 29ms, IP range was 2xx same as yours. No idea why it changed.
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kitz

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Re: Interleaved or fastpath?
« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2015, 08:15:35 PM »

Can you ask your ISP to perform a GEA Service Test on your line.  This will give you your line profile so that you will know for sure.

My ISP did one for me a couple of days ago and they look like this.
They may not provide the image - but they should be able to tell you the results of the Profile Name
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boost

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Re: Interleaved or fastpath?
« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2015, 11:45:28 PM »

MikeZ, no one uses BT's DNS, I am using google's DNS but I think it doesn't affect pings in any way.

How far are you from a FTTC cabinet? Are you getting full speed of Infinity 1? Where about in the UK are you? Can you post trace route to bbc.co.uk?

Cheers.

No, DNS isn't particularly relevant as far as pings and traceroutes go. You can see my stats on MDWS (MikeZ) - I'm getting the full speed for 40/10. I'm in Northamptonshire.

Code: [Select]
traceroute to bbc.co.uk (212.58.244.20), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
 1  192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1)  0.300 ms  0.275 ms  0.272 ms
 2  * * *
 3  * * *
 4  217.41.217.45 (217.41.217.45)  6.210 ms  6.259 ms  6.259 ms
 5  212.140.235.74 (212.140.235.74)  9.694 ms  10.160 ms  10.179 ms
 6  31.55.164.221 (31.55.164.221)  9.614 ms  9.353 ms  9.315 ms
 7  31.55.164.109 (31.55.164.109)  9.987 ms  8.901 ms  8.870 ms
 8  109.159.248.207 (109.159.248.207)  8.790 ms  8.390 ms  8.399 ms
 9  core2-te0-3-0-2.ealing.ukcore.bt.net (109.159.248.148)  14.985 ms  15.022 ms  14.748 ms
10  peer2-xe4-0-1.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net (109.159.252.39)  12.832 ms  13.112 ms  12.921 ms
11  194.74.65.42 (194.74.65.42)  12.820 ms  12.863 ms  12.850 ms
12  * * *
13  * * *
14  ae0.er01.telhc.bbc.co.uk (132.185.254.109)  13.322 ms  12.796 ms  13.487 ms
15  132.185.255.149 (132.185.255.149)  14.114 ms  13.864 ms  13.877 ms
16  fmt-vip71.telhc.bbc.co.uk (212.58.244.20)  13.500 ms  13.331 ms  13.894 ms


6ms is impressive. The lowest I've seen so far.

Shame your ISP doubles it!

What length do you reckon your copper tail is? What's attenuation reported as? :)
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N0STIE

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Re: Interleaved or fastpath?
« Reply #25 on: June 20, 2015, 01:15:12 AM »

That's a great latency, I wish I had 13ms!

I am thinking of getting HG612 3B, is it good idea? My DLSAM is ECI. I would love to see my line stats and that confusing interleaving!
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kitz

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Re: Interleaved or fastpath?
« Reply #26 on: June 20, 2015, 02:18:38 AM »

6ms is impressive. The lowest I've seen so far.

Shame your ISP doubles it!

What length do you reckon your copper tail is? What's attenuation reported as? :)

That isn't the ISP doubling it.   Hop 4 will be at the bRAS location and before any core routing. Liverpool doesnt have a core node, so most likely that will be somewhere like Manchester.   As mentioned in my earlier post 6-7ms is typical to bRAS, its also not unusual to see several hops at the bRAS before it enters the core.

Hop 9 is exiting the core at Ealing. 

Most BTw based ISPs except BTretail use L2TP tunnelling so that you never see any of the BTwholesale routing.  Many years ago I did some trials for Plusnet's RIN network where they didnt use L2TP and I could see clearly from that I went through Manchester.   There used to be another way you could view your routing, but Im not sure if it works on 21CN - I havent tried it. 


I find hop 5 quite interesting though and how things increase by 3ms - yet both hop4 and hop5 resolve to T-MAN (Metropolitan Access Node) but Ive no idea what a T-MAN is - searching throws up something to do with clusters & IPv6 and yet when I look at the next hop after it resolves to BT-UKIP-IPV4.   If someone has more info on that please do enlighten :)  Im not sure if those particular routers in that cluster could even have low priority to ICMP as note how hop 8 has lower latency, which is typical of prioritising ICMP.
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N0STIE

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Re: Interleaved or fastpath?
« Reply #27 on: June 20, 2015, 02:32:45 AM »

Just tried to tracert the IP that appears in my tracert, unfortunately none of these IP is routable or pingable - many timeouts. Just found that these first hop IPs are very similar to my BT DNS. What do you think about this?
Strange how the trace route changes. I have seen kind of IPs on the first hops you posted starting at 2xx. then it suddenly changed to 3x.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2015, 02:35:14 AM by N0STIE »
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MikeZ

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Re: Interleaved or fastpath?
« Reply #28 on: June 20, 2015, 08:29:28 AM »

That's a great latency, I wish I had 13ms!

I am thinking of getting HG612 3B, is it good idea? My DLSAM is ECI. I would love to see my line stats and that confusing interleaving!

Unfortunately BT's core routing adds a few ms - my previous ISP gave me 8 or 9ms to bbc.co.uk.

If you want to upload your stats to MDWS then you'll need something like the HG612. I'm using one with an ECI cab and it's fine at the moment. Will be interesting to see what happens if/when G.INP is enabled...
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MikeZ

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Re: Interleaved or fastpath?
« Reply #29 on: June 20, 2015, 08:37:29 AM »

I find hop 5 quite interesting though and how things increase by 3ms - yet both hop4 and hop5 resolve to T-MAN (Metropolitan Access Node) but Ive no idea what a T-MAN is - searching throws up something to do with clusters & IPv6 and yet when I look at the next hop after it resolves to BT-UKIP-IPV4.   If someone has more info on that please do enlighten :)  Im not sure if those particular routers in that cluster could even have low priority to ICMP as note how hop 8 has lower latency, which is typical of prioritising ICMP.

I'd rather they gave low priority to ICMP rather than dropping UDP, which some of them seem to be doing. Since switching to Infinity I've noticed that NTP has become less reliable. Using tshark I can see that many requests just don't get a reply at peak times. Early in the morning, every request receives a reply.
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