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Author Topic: Solar Panels & FTTC  (Read 5052 times)

simoncraddock

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Solar Panels & FTTC
« on: June 13, 2015, 02:42:32 PM »

Wasn't sure which section to put this in...

Has anyone had issues with Solar Panel systems possibly causing interference to VDSL?

I had some installed on Wednesday morning but noticed Friday morning I had notched up over 400 ES/35 SES on my Fritzbox over the past 24hrs . Around 10am that morning I lost synch twice in quick succession and Interleaving depth of 1325/220 was applied with Delay 8/8 INP 3/2.5.

Today errors are minimal with 5 ES since popping the HG612 on-line 4hrs ago to try see what's happening, it's a dull wet day so fairly low output from the PV array compared to Wed/Thu/Fri.

I've looked on Google and there's very little evidence to support my theory but I've contacted the Solar Panel company who will probably respond Monday.


« Last Edit: June 13, 2015, 03:18:46 PM by simoncraddock »
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Fritzbox 7490 l Plusnet FTTC

burakkucat

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Re: Solar Panels & FTTC
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2015, 02:53:58 PM »

So how does the technology work?  :-\  The PV array generates a DC voltage. At some point it is transformed into an AC voltage. That process of DC to AC conversion probably results in harmonics right up into the RF spectrum.

xDSL works by using very low power RF transceivers attached to either end of a metallic pathway. That metallic pathway does act as an aerial.

I'm not suggesting that one technology actually precludes the other technology operating correctly  :o  but it is certainly something to consider.  ???
« Last Edit: June 13, 2015, 02:56:10 PM by burakkucat »
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simoncraddock

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Re: Solar Panels & FTTC
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2015, 02:57:36 PM »

My other issue is I still have scaffolding up outside which is resting directly against the incoming BT Line. I guess this could also be acting like a huge antenna  :'(

In the meantime I've ordered some copper RF shielding mesh to construct a Faraday Cage around my xDSL router to see what happens.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2015, 03:02:11 PM by simoncraddock »
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burakkucat

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Re: Solar Panels & FTTC
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2015, 03:10:33 PM »

I don't want you to rush off and commit to spending more money.  :no:  I just posted what came to mind as a possible scenario which might account for your observations and as a starting point for a discussion amongst technically minded kitizens.
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simoncraddock

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Re: Solar Panels & FTTC
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2015, 03:14:48 PM »

I ordered that last night off a well known auction site, A3 sheet for under 10.
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Dray

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Re: Solar Panels & FTTC
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2015, 03:29:47 PM »

I think if there is any RF interference, you should be able to hear it on a cheap radio.
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4candles

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Re: Solar Panels & FTTC
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2015, 08:41:29 AM »

...but you get a better class of interference on a Roberts.   ;)
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lloyd

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Re: Solar Panels & FTTC
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2015, 10:35:50 AM »

I experience no correlation between solar panel generation and any errors or change in snrm. Don't know what your setup is, but I have a reasonable physical separation between the modem and inverter (one in loft, one on the ground floor). 

What I do see though is a good correlation between rain/high humidity and decrease in snrm.
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JGO

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Re: Solar Panels & FTTC
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2015, 10:38:21 AM »

FWIW my next door but one neighbor had had solar panels since before I went to ADSL. I've never seen the sort of interference I'd expect from that (a repetitive spectrum with an average  6dB/octave averagel falloff with frequency.) which suggests it is below the modem noise.  I do get a bit from BC stations. but not significant. This is with underground phone cables.

Of course if some cheap jack firm omits the filtering it could happen !
 


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Black Sheep

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Re: Solar Panels & FTTC
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2015, 08:33:10 PM »

Once had a REIN job, that the engineer who raised the case commented he could hear extreme 'Noise' coming from a house approximately 10 houses up from the complaining EU. The only one with solar panels on the roof.

Myself and another engineer visited a few days later, and at first thing in the morning (0800). It was perfectly quiet wherever we drove around the estate. Then about 1030, boom !!! The 'Noise' on the van radio was deafening, and right outside the house the previous engineer had mentioned in his notes.

By now the lady of the house was home and she put us in touch with her husband. turned out he was some electrical genius who fully understood what I was trying to convey. But, he was adamant it would not be broadband service affecting 'Noise'. He told us that the cells (Solar Panels) have to gather up x amount of energy, before the inverter kicks in (The boom we heard at about 1030) and starts to supply the National Grid.

How much of that is true about the cells/inverter/supply ..... I don't know ..... but the Spectrum Analyser showed us that it was indeed non-service affecting 'Noise' with regard to ADSL. Turned out the complaining EU needed a new D-side ....  ::).

JGO is the man, the myth, the legend on this subject ...... and his comments above would concur with what we found. I've only ever had that one occasion to suspect solar panels as a source of REIN, based on another engineers viewpoint.   
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simoncraddock

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Re: Solar Panels & FTTC
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2015, 08:42:15 PM »

Thank's guys for the input.

I'm waiting to see if the Interleaving is removed in the next few days, so far errors are minimal. If interleaving is removed and the errors go through the roof again then I'm not sure how to proceed other than turning off the inverter temporarily to see if they cease.

Could scaffolding which is resting directly against the line be a possible cause by acting like a huge antenna?
« Last Edit: June 15, 2015, 08:50:23 PM by simoncraddock »
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burakkucat

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Re: Solar Panels & FTTC
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2015, 09:59:07 PM »

Could scaffolding which is resting directly against the line be a possible cause by acting like a huge antenna?

Unless the scaffolding is making intimate contact with the metallic core of one of the wires within the drop-cable then I would not expect it to be causing any problem. Assuming the scaffolding is not going to remain there for ever then just check again once it has been removed.
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simoncraddock

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Re: Solar Panels & FTTC
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2015, 10:44:55 PM »

Similar story...

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=28177598&postcount=2376

[edit] user just stated he had multiple power outages due to on-going work
« Last Edit: June 15, 2015, 11:05:13 PM by simoncraddock »
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JGO

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Re: Solar Panels & FTTC
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2015, 03:21:23 PM »

This new link give some information on the regulation of solar panel emissions := 

http://www.southgatearc.org/news/2015/june/standard_for_photovoltaic_inverters_provides_relief.htm
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npr

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Re: Solar Panels & FTTC
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2015, 04:25:52 PM »

Could scaffolding which is resting directly against the line be a possible cause by acting like a huge antenna?

Unless the scaffolding is making intimate contact with the metallic core of one of the wires within the drop-cable then I would not expect it to be causing any problem. Assuming the scaffolding is not going to remain there for ever then just check again once it has been removed.

Would it not be possible that's it's making a capacitive coupling to ground or antenna?
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