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Author Topic: Fixed rate ADSL instead of Max  (Read 2880 times)

Weaver

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Fixed rate ADSL instead of Max
« on: July 18, 2015, 03:33:56 AM »

The various availability checkers on this site mention availability of a fixed rate ds sync rate of 2.0 Mb/s for me, which is slightly better than the rate I usually get.

My question: is there a real fixed rate product that I could ask my ISP to get hold of for me from BTW, instead of IPStream Max? Surely, too good to be true?

I get 1.75 Mb/s more often than not on DLM and IPStream Max, and my current DLink DSL-320B modems only occasionally get 2.0 Mb/s and then manage to hold it for about a week or so before drifting back down. Other modems could definitely do slightly better.

What a fabulous dream, no more wrestling with DLM! I would still need the BTW Premium option btw.
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kitz

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Re: Fixed rate ADSL instead of Max
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2015, 05:10:46 AM »

Yes there is an actual fixed rate product (as opposed to a capped 2Mb rate adaptive line).   However I would not recommend it for your line and I dont think that many ISPs retail it these days due to lack of demand.     

Rate adaptive DSL (such as IPStream max /ADSL2+/VDSL) syncs as fast as it can and the sync speed will vary depending upon the SNR available at the time.
Fixed rate works differently - theres no target SNRm and the line either syncs at 2Mbps or not at all.   In other words if you dont have sufficient SNR then your line will lose sync and wont come back up.  If your average maxdsl sync is 1.75Mbps then you'd be spending an awful lot of time without any connection at all.   

The 2Mb fixed rate product is not good for long lines. In fact irrc I dont think BT will fit 2Mb fixed on lines with over 40dB attenuation*.  Fixed rate products generally speaking need about 10dB of SNRm to stay stable.  Bear in mind maxdsl by default works at a target SNR of 6dB.     
I doubt youre interested in the 1Mb or 512kb fixed lines. 


*Cant recall if 40dB is the exact figure - it may have been as low as 30dB at one point.   Its about 10yrs now since maxdsl came in which is the much better option for most lines and why I can no longer recall the figure off the top of my head.
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Weaver

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Re: Fixed rate ADSL instead of Max
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2015, 05:35:19 AM »

So even if I could get hold of it, I might be in big trouble at times when I couldn't achieve 6dB DS SNR?

Thanks for saving me a lot of wasted time then. :)
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kitz

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Re: Fixed rate ADSL instead of Max
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2015, 02:14:52 PM »

Quote
I might be in big trouble at times when I couldn't achieve 6dB DS SNR?

Yep.   At least maxdsl would let you sync at a lower rate and give you say 1.7Mbps.  On 2Mb fixed you'd be completely without any service at all.
Fixed rate also doesnt have interleaving and error correction and its all FAST path, so things could become very tricky indeed.

Going back several years ISPs used to transfer some troublesome lines that were say syncing & flapping at around say 700kbps to 512kb fixed.     The advantage was at least the EU was getting what they paid for and because fixed doesnt do interleaving & Error Correction, then there was no DLM flapping either.
 
However these days costs have come down dramatically for rate adaptive DSL & its actually the cheaper product of the 2 types because it has a fixed price no matter what the sync.  ISP bulk purchase reductions and kit for rate adaptive technologies means that once the cost of rate adaptive came down to meet a similar cost of 512kb fixed line then there is little incentive for the ISP to offer fixed rate.  Its one of those things that the more people buy a product then the cheaper it becomes.
 
Also the DLM is (believe it or not) better than it was in the early days of maxdsl,  so its easier and cheaper for the ISP to request a 'max capped profile 512/1000/2000'.  This product is basically rate adaptive (max) dsl set to sync at maximum speed of 512 and mimic a fixed rate line.   Doing it this way: -
   (1) stops most of the DLM flapping
   (2) reduction in speed usually gives more SNRm to play so line is less likely to need interleaving etc
   (3) Customer knows what their line speed should be at each sync
   (4) If for any reason it cant sync at 512 then at least it can sync at a lower speed to get some sort of connection
   (5) Its cheaper for the SP & therefore the customer.
Thats why not many ISPs now retail a fixed rate product.
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Jaggies

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Re: Fixed rate ADSL instead of Max
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2015, 12:10:15 AM »

Another issue with fixed rate ADSL is the upstream is fixed at 288 Kbps. OTOH, if you get one of the
Quote
max capped profile 512/1000/2000
services, you should get the 448 Kbps upstream that goes along with that.

However, as Kitz says, you probably won't find an ISP retailing that product these days.
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kitz

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Re: Fixed rate ADSL instead of Max
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2015, 12:33:36 AM »

Thanks jaggies - I'd forgotten about the upstream rate.
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Weaver

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Re: Fixed rate ADSL instead of Max
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2015, 03:40:27 AM »

Good god, I had no idea what a monster it was that was still on the books. I lose interleave and I lose my 800k (Premium) upstream too. I get about 250-320 kbps US depending on which line it is.

No wonder it's seemingly confined to the history books then.
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Weaver

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Re: Fixed rate ADSL instead of Max
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2015, 03:41:12 AM »

Thanks for another innocent life saved.
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