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[Frogparty]

The voice on my BT landline is too quiet (my hearing is fine) and callers complain that I am faint. It has been that way for over a year since the line was installed, regardless what handset I use. Had OR engineers out a couple of times and the line is "within parameters if a little on the low side", but I am fed up of having to jamb the receiver against my ear, asking people to repeat themselves, and having to shout.

I am in a rural loaction in Cornwall, over a mile from the cabinet (FTTC delivers 8Mbps internet perhaps indicative of line distance and quality). The cabinet is even further from the exchange. The line sounds clear enough, no rattles or hums, but the voices are very quiet. Unplugging BB makes no difference. Master socket (NTE5) test point is same as any others. Tried different handsets.

Raised this issue at the Bt community
https://community.bt.com/t5/Phones/Faint-Phone-land-line-too-quiet-to-hear-voices/td-p/1484049
where someone suggested I need them to increase the line gain at the exchange. That sounds reasonable, but still waiting for BT moderator to get back to me, been days. Meanwhile I had a futile conversation with India, they could send an engineer again (and risk £129) but not do anything about line gain at the exchange.
 
Does line gain sound the way to go? More importantly how do I get BT to try it?

[benji09]

  I would be surprised if BT could raise your speech level at the exchange. But, if they can't, you could always run a V.O.I.P. phone line over your internet connection. You might even save money on call charges. I myself use SIPGATE, as my internet phone provider, and their line rental charge is nil, phone  number is free, and their call charges are just over one pence per minute on normal dialed numbers. I have plugged a normal phone into a GRANDSTREAM  ATA box. In this way I don't need a computer turned on to make or receive calls. Details on the Sipgate site........

[burakkucat]

Hello Frogparty and welcome to the Kitz forum.

Will you confirm a few points, please?

• The circuit was a new provision to a newly built property?
• You have an active broadband service: Is it legacy xDSL from the exchange? Or is it a VDSL2 (FTTC) service?
• Who is the provider of your telephony service?
• Who is the provider of your broadband service?

It does appear to be an obscure fault but, as it is a fault with a telephony service, Openreach are obliged to rectify it under the universal service commitment.

I am uncertain about the possibility of adjusting the circuit's gain via configuration of the exchange equipment and hope that Black Sheep will be able to give some advice regarding that possibility. 

[Black Sheep]

Gain can indeed be increased remotely on the PSTN service, (Used to be the domain of our OMC duty, but who knows these days ?). If memory serves there are settings 1 to 4 ........ I'm not sure which is low gain/high gain and vice-versa. I'm pretty sure this may fall under BT Operates jurisdiction

Of course, I can only pass comment on BT PSTN equipment as I'm not sure how the OLO's equipment works ?.

The kind of fault you describe, is what would generally fall under our 'One-way transmission' category. 99% of the time this will either be the EU's equipment, or the PSTN Exchange port itself. 

[Frogparty]

Thanks all for your contributions.

• The circuit was a new provision to a newly built property?
• You have an active broadband service: Is it legacy xDSL from the exchange? Or is it a VDSL2 (FTTC) service?
• Who is the provider of your telephony service?
• Who is the provider of your broadband service?

It does appear to be an obscure fault but, as it is a fault with a telephony service, Openreach are obliged to rectify it under the universal service commitment.

1) Yes new property, built on a site that once had a phone but had OR planner out.  Historic line went to a pole just outside the boundary. We laid line underground to house from pole, when activation day came OR replaced some of the overhead line on route to cabinet to get things  working.
2) Yes active BB. VDSL2 since April (not "BT Infinity" as couldn't promise 20Mbps but FTTC).
3) BT phone
4) BT broadband.

Yes obscure. Driving me nuts. Mobile is so much clearer, had not thought of VOIP but would like land line to function if possible.

Gain can indeed be increased remotely on the PSTN service, (Used to be the domain of our OMC duty, but who knows these days ?). If memory serves there are settings 1 to 4 ........ I'm not sure which is low gain/high gain and vice-versa. I'm pretty sure this may fall under BT Operates jurisdiction

Not sure I understand what you are saying, but can I try this on BT? Just how do I contact the bit of BT or BTOR that might understand?

Left wondering if the faint phone is down to a line issue in addition to distance. That would also deminish my BB, currently getting 38Db attenuation and 8Mbps, is that reasonable for my distance from the cabinet? They predicted 15Mbps (from 1.5Mbps ADSL2), and yet I am half that.

[Black Sheep]

What I was trying to convey is that if your landline (PSTN) is a BT circuit, then gain can be tweaked. I don't know if this can be done on other circuits such as SKY, AOL etc etc
I would suggest that this should be attempted before any suspected 'Line-fault' is raised (For possible charges etc).

PSTN circuits are usually ok up to approx. 13/14Km ............. dependant on cable make-up and poundage. Forget the Cab, as your dial-tone comes from the Exchange as is just muddying the waters so to speak. How far do you think you are from your Exchange ??

[Frogparty]

What I was trying to convey is that if your landline (PSTN) is a BT circuit, then gain can be tweaked. I don't know if this can be done on other circuits such as SKY, AOL etc etc
I would suggest that this should be attempted before any suspected 'Line-fault' is raised (For possible charges etc).

Thanks for clarifying. Landline and service is all BT, but how do I actually get them to tweek the line gain? Seems that all I can report is "line faults", and I know that the line is "within parameters" so not considered faulty. Where can I call and speak quietly?

PSTN circuits are usually ok up to approx. 13/14Km ............. dependant on cable make-up and poundage. Forget the Cab, as your dial-tone comes from the Exchange as is just muddying the waters so to speak. How far do you think you are from your Exchange ??

As the crow flies the Mullion exchange is 4km away, but I know that the line route is very indirect. I have tried to follow the line overground along the road and across fields etc. to get a more acurate distance but lose it because it is underground in places. The PCP cab is about half way, over  2  miles away by road but line does not follow road all the way. Wish that OR would publish their infrastructure! Any way I can get them to tell me the route or distance?

My nearest neighbour is 500m away. When our line was activated they replaced som of the  old line that hung along the road between properties to get it working, it had not been used for over 15 years. I suspect that they did as much as needed to get the signal within parameters and no more. Very possible that other sections of line or junctions are degraded but still functioning, but they are not going to look while it is within parameters unless I can make a case for it. So line gain seems my only hope at the moment.

[roseway]

You can dial 151 (or 0800 800 151 from a different line) or go here: https://www.bt.com/consumerFaultTracking/public/faults/tracking.do?pageId=2&s_cid=con_FURL_faults&utm_source=ATL&utm_medium=FURL&utm_content=R&utm_campaign=faults

[Frogparty]

You can dial 151 (or 0800 800 151 from a different line) or go here: https://www.bt.com/consumerFaultTracking/public/faults/tracking.do?pageId=2&s_cid=con_FURL_faults&utm_source=ATL&utm_medium=FURL&utm_content=R&utm_campaign=faults

If only it was that easy. I have tried and I can only report a "line fault", and the engineer comes to my propety, slaps a meter on and says "within parameters if a little low". They do not try to use the phone, they do not know about line gain or other things set at the exchange, they just measure the line say good enough and go away.

Who can I talk to about line gain? It may not help, it may be maxed out already, but I just want to have an intelligent conversation with someone that can at least try it.

[Frogparty]

Who can I talk to about line gain? It may not help, it may be maxed out already, but I just want to have an intelligent conversation with someone that can at least try it.

Well it took nearly a week but my post in the BT Community forum resulted in a call from someone to say that they had raised the line gain!!! Things are less faint, but unfortunately the improvement is not as dramatic as I had hoped, depending on caller it is still not always that great. There are also more noticeable cracks and pops on the line, which I was warned could happen, but they are not intrusive. I guess that we have done what we can with gain.

However I now have a BT mod on the case, and given my disappointment with the phone line and the lower performance of BB than predicted, he is sending an engineer to look at the line again. Although signal gets through, I suspect that the condition of the line is far from optimum and both phone and BB performance is consequently deminished. If nothing else I will try and get a map of the line route and cab locations from him. If I know actual line distance it could show that the attenuation is disproportionate. This end things are fine, but what about further along the line?

[boost]

Just keep whinging about the poor audio quality and wait for the magic to happen

[Frogparty]

Just keep whinging about the poor audio quality and wait for the magic to happen

Well I will try. I suspect the issue is down to legacy Aluminium line deteriorating, and as I have read elsewhere BTOR are not replacing it with Cu unless it actually breaks or gives readings outside generous parameters. Boo hoo!

[boost]

We accept all sorts of excuses for poor quality broadband. Half of the time it's sheer ineptitude and not down to any technical limitation. We still accept them. Nobody's perfect!

Should we accept a bunch of excuses for PSTN voice too? Arguably, the simplest product to ever grace the telecommunications product catalogue?
Should we don the technicolour dreamcoat of excuses because Goliath deems our section of copper commercially worthless?

'Get it fixed ASAP' would be my 'naive' and unrelenting attitude in this case but then my attitude often gets me into trouble!

Best of luck!

[Black Sheep]

Ha ha, bit overly-dramatic Boost. 

The problem with this type of fault is, and always is, whether to report it as a PSTN (Phone) fault or a DSL (Broadband fault) ?? Both products have set-in-stone test processes that have been agreed with ALL parties. when BT was separated and Openreach formed.

Aluminium in the circuit ?? To use a technical term ..... tough tators ..... we know it's not ideal for DSL transmission but when it was lain decades ago and high frequency DSL was a pipe dream, it was fit-for-purpose. DSL is a 'best-efforts' product as a result of this legacy cable.

With the advent of G.FAST, no business worth its salt is going to invest heavily in the legacy network. BT are however fully committed to reducing high-fault nodes and have upped their budget for the FVR (Fault Volume Reduction) teams to continue with their good work.

I've seen this kind of issue Frogparty is experiencing many, many times. No matter what tests, or stresses you put on the circuit ...... if they all pass and the fault condition isn't there to 'see', what would you have us do ?? That's why the term 'Intermittency' is used quite a lot in telecoms faulting.

To put the readerships minds at rest, engineers get monitored to death on their 'Stats' ......... two of which are 'Early Life Failures' (For provisioning faults within 28 days of going 'Live'), and 'Repeat Reports' (For repair faults reported within 28 days of last engineering visit).
No-one wants an ELF or RR, not the engineer ..... not his/her Operations Manager ...... not their Senior Operations Manager ...... and certainly not the EU. But, the hierarchy do understand that there will be times were instances like Frogparty's will occur, and certain percentages are allowed.

Lets not get into another 'Engineers are inept' session ....... or, 'BTOR don't care' ................ until you actually witness what really happens it's just another whinge with no substance.   

[boost]

Black Sheep! You're right but I can't seem to help myself sometimes! lol

I realise I am sometimes often outspoken and I am truly sorry if anyone gets caught in one of my holier-than-thou moments!

Without the experience you freely share on here, most of us would be up p00 creek without a paddle! Sorry for being a pain, BS, because you are truly a gent

My inept comment was directed, generally, at system designers, who build to a budget and a template, without expending any real effort and without any real thought for the BAU guys who get handed a turd on a plate. Field engineers, for example. It was definitely not a slight towards BTOR field techs but my apologies for not making that clear. You may refer to me henceforth as Captain Poutfacer!

I imagine people must try and pull the wool a bit to eek every last drop out of their, in some cases, more than adequately performing broadband lines. I imagine this is a PITA for BTOR and I sympathise. The expectations of some are wholly unrealistic, IMHO.

I do worry, sometimes, that advice for an individual issue becomes gospel for all. No doubt I am guilty of this too. It would be a shame if people felt they weren't able to progress their genuine voice issues because of their perception from a single thread they happened upon?

Complacency is rife in most industries and IT is no different. It costs us all dearly. When I come across something with even a hint of complacency, rightly or wrongly, I try and stamp it out. In this instance, I imagined some dood with a crap p00 line that nobody gives a toss about. I also read it to be a permanent issue but my thread scanning skills may need recalibrating!

Anyway, sorry for getting all preachy. Again!!