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[jeffers]

Answering my own question here. I have connected a standard DSL filter to the test socket and removed everything else from the line. Attenuation has dropped from 18.4 to 18.1. So its not the filter or internal wiring   Also using the phone doesnt seem to reliably cause a disconnection.

Any other ideas? I'm guessing the chances of Plusnet/BT accepting this as a fault are slim to none?

[burakkucat]

Hmm . . . I think you are going to have to wait and watch, keeping a note of any significant events. I can't see any ISP/CP requesting Openreach intervention on the scant information that the reported attenuation does not seem to agree with the approximate estimated distance of the D-side circuit.

[ip75]

I think if you tell Plusnet that your speed has dropped, and that using the telephone causes your connection to drop, they will take it seriously. Worst case is they tell you to monitor it for a while.

[jeffers]

I think I'll keep an eye on it for a bit and see what happens. Thanks for the help everyone!

[WWWombat]

Thanks for the info. I have followed the poles and measured on google maps - its actually less than 250m, something around 215m. Obviously this doesn't include the additional wiring inside the cabs but it should be fairly accurate, and nowhere near the 400m+ mark expected for this level of attenuation.

Is your line carried by poles all the way to your home (ie your line runs pole -> pole -> pole), so you can follow the actual path? Or is the distribution cable underground, only coming out for each pole to do just the last drop to the homes?

If the latter, then the line could go down one side of the street, feeding poles on that side, before crossing and coming back up the street, feeding those poles. If that were the case, you'd probably see the changes in the estimations for different houses following the street layout.

Anything else, and the problem is more likely to be gauge or material. 0.4mm copper has resistance of around 133 ohms/km, compared to 85 ohms/km for 0.5mm copper; a line of 0.4mm copper would be getting behaviour approaching 1/2 or 2/3 of our normal expectations. Aluminium lines put a similar kybosh on reality over expectation.

Anyway, this is by-the-by while there is a fault around. Dropping broadband by picking up the handset is definitely indicative of a problem...

[Chrysalis]

A few things.

Often line routing isnt direct.

Basically as far as I know the routing from my cab crosses the road (opposite side to me) then it has to traverse 4 side streets en route, and then cross the road again back to me.  Direct its under 200m, actual distance is close to 400m.  So thats an example.  Its even worse for those nearer the cab but on my side of the road, they get less than 40mbit sync even tho the cabinet is across the road from them as they at the end of the loop.

Next thing to consider what is the estimated line speed at sign up and estimated line speed now (reported on GEA test).

In short if the GEA test passes you will struggle to get a resolution, you might be able to get an engineer sent out with the threat of a charge, but if the engineer's JDSU test passes alongside a passed GEA test then nothing will probably be done.

If your line speed is above the estimate, equal or only a bit below your estimate and both test's pass its probably a case of tough luck.

[Black Sheep]

As Chrys has stated .......... if the statutory tests pass, and the dropping of connection with handset lifted cannot be simulated ...... then there's really not much that can be done ??

As I've said many times, fault conditions do not mend themselves*, they will progressively get worse which is a pita for you, but a god-send for the engineer.

*A situation can occur where multiple EU's are reporting faulty circuits, and it will likely be a common joint that 'feeds' all the EU's that has been subject to corrosion. By 'remaking' this joint, all circuits will be back to rude health and the unassuming EU's are under the impression the fault has repaired itself. Hope this makes sense ?.

[Chrysalis]

I am tired, sorry I didnt pick up on the handset symptons.

[renluop]

Apologies for the possible irrelevance of this post. Is the straight distance between poles going to be accurate  for cable length; won't there be slack to consider, and what %?

[Black Sheep]

It is incalculable, I'm afraid Ren. It's certainly a salient point but there is no way t0 calculate or second-guess the amount of slack in each UG chamber or on overhead carrier poles.
I remember roughly 15yrs ago, myself and a colleague spent days trying to locate a fault in a field. Dig after dig after dig, finally revealed a coil of 20pr armoured cable that would have bought a holiday home if weighed in at the scrapyard ?? The contractors who mole-ploughed it in obviously didn't have a hacksaw to cut it to the required length and just buried it. Played havoc with our meter-readings.

[renluop]

Point taken! The thing is would it be reasonable with overhead lines to allow ~15%, which would happen to be the difference of 250 and 215m as in the OP's case?

[jeffers]

Bringing this back from the dead somewhat but it looks like things have gotten worse over the last week or so. The VDSL dropped ~6 times over the last 24hrs, sometimes when the phone rings but otherwise fairly randomly. I've raised a voice fault with Plusnet as there can occasionally be noise on the line and a BT guy is due at the end of next week.

In the meantime can someone tell me if its normal for the snrm to change for the duration of a phone call? It doesnt sound right to me. If someone is able to take a quick peek at my stats on MDWS it would be very much appreciated. I had a short (1 min) phonecall at 18:06 today which didnt cause a DSL resync but did cause a change in snrm. The last time i know for sure a call caused a resync was on 7 may at 16:47

Thanks for the help
Jeff

[NewtronStar]

In the meantime can someone tell me if its normal for the snrm to change for the duration of a phone call?
Thanks for the help
Jeff

It quite common when there is a slight HR fault to see the SNRM dip with higher CRC's when the telephone rings but it should go back to normal during the conversation duration.

Lets hope the Telecom Engineer finds a noticable fault next week

[jeffers]

Minor update, the BTO guys turned up today and heard the noise on the line under certain conditions (seems to be just after an inbound call). Theyve redone the joint on the pole but say another team have to get involved (UG team?) to fix a possible HR fault elsewhere in the circuit. Hopefully over the weekend or Tuesday.

Interestingly, I also asked the guy about the line length to the cab and he said its showing up as 360m. My downstream attenuation is still 18.1 which would either suggest a longer line or some crappy cable in between. Am I right in assuming the HR fault would also increase the attenuation? I'm hoping when they fix the HR fault the attenuation will drop.

The guy has kept the case open until the HR fault has been cleared, once the case closes will BT automatically reset the ine profile or is this something I need to ask about. Bear in mind that it has been raised as a voice fault due to the noise on the line.

Thanks all
Jeff

[Black Sheep]

Minor update, the BTO guys turned up today and heard the noise on the line under certain conditions (seems to be just after an inbound call). Theyve redone the joint on the pole but say another team have to get involved (UG team?) to fix a possible HR fault elsewhere in the circuit. Hopefully over the weekend or Tuesday.

Interestingly, I also asked the guy about the line length to the cab and he said its showing up as 360m. My downstream attenuation is still 18.1 which would either suggest a longer line or some crappy cable in between. Am I right in assuming the HR fault would also increase the attenuation? I'm hoping when they fix the HR fault the attenuation will drop.

The guy has kept the case open until the HR fault has been cleared, once the case closes will BT automatically reset the ine profile or is this something I need to ask about. Bear in mind that it has been raised as a voice fault due to the noise on the line.

Thanks all
Jeff

Yes, a HR would manifest itself on the router as a higher-than-usual attenuation. Experience shows me that a HR will fluctuate, and as such your attenuation should ??

No, the circuit will probably not be reset if it's a voice fault ...... not unless the attending engineer is also broadband savvy and performs one as a matter of course ?? It is not in the remit of a voice fault to perform a reset.