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Author Topic: Sky & IPv6  (Read 15853 times)

Chrysalis

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Re: Sky & IPv6
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2015, 09:17:59 PM »

rizla odd that you got added when you didnt apply.

I just got this in a pm, odd eh?

"I just wanted to let you know that we have taken the decision not to go ahead with the trial due to a low uptake from customers. Please stay tuned for other trial opportunities in the future."

I think it rather means I just havent been selected as I am sure the trial is going ahead.
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Weaver

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Re: Sky & IPv6
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2015, 12:23:49 AM »

I thought that BT Retail was intending to offer IPv6 right now?
« Last Edit: September 17, 2015, 12:33:49 AM by Weaver »
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Weaver

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Re: Sky & IPv6
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2015, 12:25:19 AM »

Rizla, are you able to dump Sky's router and just use a suitable modem and your own router?
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guest

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Re: Sky & IPv6
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2015, 07:30:19 AM »

You can if you want Weaver but for the VDSL services it is technically a breach of the T&Cs - rather sensibly Sky believed it'd be a good idea to only have equipment which supported g.INP and vectoring connected to the line, as they are contractually obliged to do so (unlike some other ISPs/incumbents ;) ). Vectoring? Dream on, BT blew that with their cheap ECI junk anyway & we're going to be the only country in the EU which is incapable of using it.

Chrysalis - I can assure you that a trial IS ongoing as I know several people on the Sky forums who are on it. Edit - they spent ages trying to get me to change my mind about beta-testing; I got several phonecalls from various levels of engineering management including the product manager for the SR101/102 so I'm not very surprised it still happens.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2015, 07:33:17 AM by rizla »
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Weaver

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Re: Sky & IPv6
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2015, 07:54:17 AM »

@rizla - "suitable modem" would address that though, surely. Is this an FTTC service using normal BT hardware in the green cab?
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Chrysalis

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Re: Sky & IPv6
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2015, 08:20:12 AM »

You can if you want Weaver but for the VDSL services it is technically a breach of the T&Cs - rather sensibly Sky believed it'd be a good idea to only have equipment which supported g.INP and vectoring connected to the line, as they are contractually obliged to do so (unlike some other ISPs/incumbents ;) ). Vectoring? Dream on, BT blew that with their cheap ECI junk anyway & we're going to be the only country in the EU which is incapable of using it.

Chrysalis - I can assure you that a trial IS ongoing as I know several people on the Sky forums who are on it. Edit - they spent ages trying to get me to change my mind about beta-testing; I got several phonecalls from various levels of engineering management including the product manager for the SR101/102 so I'm not very surprised it still happens.

yeah its pretty obvious its ongoing, whats the point of asking of trialists when they put people who dont want to be on it instead, odd. Then pretend they cancelled it O_o
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guest

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Re: Sky & IPv6
« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2015, 08:50:22 AM »

@rizla - "suitable modem" would address that though, surely.

How is the average Sky user going to know what is "suitable"? They wouldn't know what g.INP/vectoring/SIN498 was if it smacked them repeatedly in the face :)

For once Sky did the right thing. Had BT done the same then we wouldn't be in the utterly farcical situation we're in now re g.INP and vectoring.
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Re: Sky & IPv6
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2015, 08:52:47 AM »

yeah its pretty obvious its ongoing, whats the point of asking of trialists when they put people who dont want to be on it instead, odd. Then pretend they cancelled it O_o

That's Sky for you, they tend to select more of the "voluble" people on their forums rather than people who have a clue. They also like playing secret squirrel games....
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Chrysalis

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Re: Sky & IPv6
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2015, 12:14:31 AM »

@rizla - "suitable modem" would address that though, surely.

How is the average Sky user going to know what is "suitable"? They wouldn't know what g.INP/vectoring/SIN498 was if it smacked them repeatedly in the face :)

For once Sky did the right thing. Had BT done the same then we wouldn't be in the utterly farcical situation we're in now re g.INP and vectoring.

You are right when thinking about it, when FTTC was first launched it looked like BT were handling it the right way, distributing the modems, and putting documents online to state they had the right to kick end users offline if they were using unauthorized equipment.

This plan was obviously changed at some point I expect due to "cost" reasons from both openreach and CPs, and so they decided to stop supplying approved modems as well as even to stop supporting the existing ones by announcing an EOL for support.  Also they clearly made a mistake when they started to supply modems mismatching the DSLAM chipset so ECI modems in hauwei areas and vice versa.  Personally I have decided to make sure I use a broadcom device on my line to maintain compatibility that the hg612 had although I am on a ECI dslam, and hold my hand up to not using the sky hub (sadly its a poor spec'd device), however I would switch back if I found out I was causing a problem on the line due to the modem I am using.

Now not only do we have mixed up chipsets but we also have people using weird modems like the asus dsl-ac68 which ignores various parameters such as target snrm and UPBO if any modems need kicking off its those asus devices, but openreach have gone too far now, they have got past the point they can enforce their original intentions.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2015, 12:16:35 AM by Chrysalis »
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guest

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Re: Sky & IPv6
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2015, 03:17:08 PM »

The thing is that this isn't rocket science Chrysalis. AFAIK every single other country in the EU has successfully implemented vectoring on VDSL2 (various profiles) - or have large-scale trials ongoing.

BT blew it because the beancounters/execs got their way & substandard ECI crud got installed. That's the truth of the matter.

I'm sure that was great in terms of bonuses for execs, many of whom are long gone - like the ex-head of Openreach, now running Severn Trent (not exactly an honest company to begin with) into the ground for her bonus.

In engineering terms it was and is completely risible & to hear the nonsense coming from Openreach now about how splitting them would make them WORSE is comedy gold :D

Anyway this is way too far off-topic.
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Chrysalis

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Re: Sky & IPv6
« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2015, 05:14:34 PM »

I agree its simple, only BT can mess this kind of simple task up.

Clearly also when buying the ECI equipment they had no forward planning.

Sky and TT trialing their own FTTP suggests they lost faith in BT.

Do ECI have any other customers aside from BT? Before the UK FTTC rollout I had never heard of ECI.
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guest

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Re: Sky & IPv6
« Reply #26 on: September 17, 2015, 06:21:35 PM »

It's not that simple but the bottom line for BT is that its capital expenditure which is currently in-place & unless demand/funding compensates for that then it won't happen. Nor should it as BT is a private company.

However BT control the sub-loop from FTTC to end user so arguably they ought to be booting non-compliant routers, even their own?

Shouldn't have happened and who is going to push for another "upgrade your stuff" drive?

tl;dr is dream on.....
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kitz

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Re: Sky & IPv6
« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2015, 07:54:26 PM »

Quote
How is the average Sky user going to know what is "suitable"? They wouldn't know what g.INP/vectoring/SIN498 was if it smacked them repeatedly in the face

Unfortunately I agree with you there.   A lot of their customers dont have a clue. :no:

Quote
Had BT done the same then we wouldn't be in the utterly farcical situation we're in now re g.INP and vectoring.

Do you mean BTr or BTw?  Its a bit trickier for wholesale as they have to cater for all ISP's some of whom are niche and use different routers.  Therefore they cant really exclude or insist on 'xyz' equipment.   The move to MCT is a step in the right direction...  but then again how the heck did the ECI modems pass :(

Quote
Do ECI have any other customers aside from BT? Before the UK FTTC rollout I had never heard of ECI.

From memory they are/were big in France and Germany.  iirc Germany used them for FTTC,  I recall a search I did at the time of the g.inp issues showed another EU ISP showing similar issues re g.inp compatibility.  I cant remember exactly now and Im too lazy to undertake another search.  I think Duetch Telecom has some delay in rolling out vectoring until they upgrade the dslams in their cabs. Again I cant recall where I read it, but was something about the early FTTC cabs couldnt do vectoring, and a possible situation of upgrade M41 to V41 (dont quote me on that though because I dont know the actual dslam models).
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kitz

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Re: Sky & IPv6
« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2015, 08:15:52 PM »

Quote
This plan was obviously changed at some point I expect due to "cost" reasons from both openreach and CPs, and so they decided to stop supplying approved modems as well as even to stop supporting the existing ones by announcing an EOL for support.

I think that may have had more to do with the demand for self install and pressure from the SPs to be able to provide their own modem/routers.

Quote
Also they clearly made a mistake when they started to supply modems mismatching the DSLAM chipset so ECI modems in hauwei areas and vice versa.

IMHO this shouldn't matter, as long as the modem conforms the the standards then it should work regardless of chipset pair.   The issue is someone in BTw not being foresighted enough to purchase the V41's rather than M41s.  If they had purchased V41's then we wouldnt be having this conversation now.


Quote
I'm sure that was great in terms of bonuses for execs, many of whom are long gone - like the ex-head of Openreach, now running Severn Trent (not exactly an honest company to begin with) into the ground for her bonus.

This is an issue!  Not too long ago Execs usually had a grounding in that particular industry, now it seems like they can swap and change between organisations regardless of what service/product they provide.  Make the company profits look good for a few years by false economy get a decent bonus, move on, then watch the fallout from their decisions happen a few years later when they are installed elsewhere and let someone else mop up the mess :(

Quote
Sky have more bandwidth between Birmingham & London than BT do.

Whilst I dont have any figures to hand, Im not entirely sure if that is a good comparison to make.
iirc Sky only have a total of 4 core entry points based on a ring - London, Birmingham, Leeds, London.

BTw OTOH have 20 Core entry points and their core is heavily meshed.  So say someone in Edinburgh/Manchester etc would hop on to the core at Manchester/Edinburgh etc which would have its own amount of bandwidth.  ie Manchester to London is a straight link, whilst someone on sky would have to traverse Manchester > Birmingham before getting on the Sky Core, therefore Sky would need for bandwith from Birmingham to London.     I cant recall Skys no of PoPs - but about 90?   BT has a lot more PoPs too. Totally different type of network topology.

Sorry too lazy to go searching, to back this up, but I do have somewhere something that shows Skys Core looking like a square with only 4 entry points, whilst BTs Core is a mesh over the UK covering 20 core locations. 
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Chrysalis

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Re: Sky & IPv6
« Reply #29 on: September 19, 2015, 02:37:59 AM »

Well as proven matching chipset does help with compatibility.

In terms of blame I blame both BT openreach and BT retail, BT retail had 2 versions of the hh5, so should have sent the right ones to the right customers but instead it seemed random.  I personally when on the trial got a matching model, but I guess that was due to luck, or maybe the hh5b wasnt available then.

Virgin Media this is the one thing they got right, they whitelist devices on their network (so blocked by default), and if people want to use their own router they can do so by setting the superhub to modem mode (bridge mode).  So virgin media both allow custom routers and enforce modem's on their network.

I dont know if BT equipment allows to allow/disallow by MAC code but maybe they could have whitelisted chipset's at the very least.
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