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[c6em]

Just a pedants note the BT FTTP architecture is GPON while Gigaclear and B4RN are point to point(P2P) FTTP.
GPON can never be symmetrical due to the way it works with the upload always lower than the download
P2P can and nearly always is offered as a symmetrical service (ie 100/100Mbps etc).

My own research is that you will find it difficult to upload to things like cloud sites at higher speeds than 20Mbps.
They just will not accept it at a higher rated even if your FTTP line is capable of say 100Mbps upload.

[stevenj]

Yeah, it won't be symmetrical because the network isn't built with equal weighting. It can technically be so, but isn't planned for it capacity wise and stability wise.

My own real world experience is that most consumer and business cloud services top out at around 85mbps upload on my point to point ethernet circuits and take the full 29mbps on other 330/30 circuits over fttp. Just a shame you can't buy them now!!

Cheers folks.

[Chrysalis]

I have read dozens of posts on various web sites where people have ordered FTTP and BT retail has absorbed the costs, thats because to them its just paper money not real money, yes they have their own financial statement, but the regulators dont scrutinise every single transaction, its more so about making sure there is no pricing preference and lead time preference between openreach and CP's.

Just think of it as one of those things where BT retail leech's from openreach profit's.

[napalmdaz]

On my GPON FTTP I am capped at 20Mb upload but I actually get just over at 21. COmpared to FTTC, which topped out at 18-19 with the protocol overhead. The TDM nature of GPON seems a little bit more lax.

Engineer said they put up to 128 houses on the fibre so max upload under full contention of 9.6Mbps. Shared bandwidth is 1.24Gbps upload and 2.49Gbps download.

[guest]

Well if its £54 wholesale then that's immediately translated to £65 retail before any other costs simply by adding VAT.

That suggests to me that the likely retail cost for it (for anyone other than BT Retail) would be well above £100/month for unlimited data. Add in the tiny FTTP (BT) footprint (and the fact you can't order FTTPoD anymore) and its a very very niche product indeed. Probably not worth training staff to support it really.

* rizla shrugs & goes back to the rugby

[kitz]

BTr afaik has always offered FTTP for residential users as 300/20 under the name Infinity 4.

Its the FTTPoD product that was generally touted as 330/30. 

Plusnet & AAISP did the FTTPoD trials but that has afaik been suspended.  I seem to recall that PN rate limited to 100Mbps and I dont think (or I never heard of anyone) on AAISP getting full whack either.. I think it was something to do with their end point capacity.

Also available speed can depend upon backhaul capacity of the local exchange.   To get the full speeds you may have to use one of the business retailers.
This info was from last year and I don't know if any others since then have also withdrawn like PN & AAISP appear to have.
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/fttp.htm#fttc_speed

[kitz]

Doesn't matter to BT Retail obviously as its effectively free to them anyway.

There is profit available for them and they do still have to balance the books independently of Openreach.
There is a possibly of more scope for profit for the ISPs retailing FTTP than some FTTC lines.  Depends on how much bandwidth the EU uses.  How much more would the 330/20 EU use compared to 80/20?   A fair proportion of the existing FTTP lines are in the likes of MK, where FTTP was a solution for lines that may otherwise have been getting say 4Mbps and not necessarily heavies. 

330/20 wholesales at £295.32 pa or £24.61/£29.53 inc VAT pm.
When they retail Infinity 4 at £53.45 that gives them £23.92 to play with.   
Bear in mind just like the other ISPs, they also make a tidy chunk on WLR (which is why DSL is often sold at less than wholesale cost), so they will pick up some additional income there.

When 80/20 wholesales at £119.40 pa (£11.94 inc VAT) and is frequently sold at a loss because of ridiculously high line rental, you can see FTTP could be more profitable as long as the EU isn't a leach on the bandwidth. 
 

I could well be wrong but its rather strange that not even the niche ISPs want to know about it don't you think?

Bandwidth. As mentioned in my previous post,  PN limited the connection for their trials to the same as FTTC speeds and I read somewhere that even AAISP couldn't give flat out speeds.

Unlike PN & AAISP who use shared WBMC, BTretail used dedicated WBMC and as such have more bandwidth & flexibility   There's a suspicion that some of the shared MSILs creak and groan at certain times of the day.  ENTA buy their own MSIL bandwidth using WBC but they'd have to make sure it wouldn't impact other users.   Contention and customer ratio is weird, its why datastream and Bulldog never worked :/ 

Host links used by the shared WBMC ISPs like Plusnet & AAISP aren't really cut out yet for shed load of FTTP lines.
It's about time Plusnet got off shared WBMC and purchased their own MSILs.   Unfortunately a lot of the niche SP's such as Zen & AAISP use shared WBMC.

[stevenj]

Thanks, good extra insight there. Those costs are less than the BTW ones I pulled out so actually it's even more viable than I thought. I use need to find a ready and willing CP with access to
The BTOR products!

[kitz]

yw.

I havent checked, but I suspect the figures you found may have been for FTTPoD which is more expensive than FTTP.