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Author Topic: Major line problem  (Read 25625 times)

MikeS

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Re: Major line problem
« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2008, 03:38:31 PM »

 - there is NO record keep of faulty "D" side pairs -

I hope I'm not understanding what is being said.  I kind of assumed that when a pair was diagnosed as faulty that is would be labelled - DO NOT USE or something similar, otherwise it is simply a recipe for chaos.
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Azzaka

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Re: Major line problem
« Reply #31 on: March 04, 2008, 03:42:37 PM »

To clarify,

the BT engineers DO make a note both in the CAB and Exchange and also in their book which is then passed on when they pass their notes on to be stored for the records.

Leo
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Ezzer

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Re: Major line problem
« Reply #32 on: March 04, 2008, 04:02:29 PM »

The reason why d-side faults aren't recorded and e-side are is mainly because as the e-side cableing is pressurised so opening a joint up is not as straight forward as a d-side joint so typicaly any e-side fault involves a pair change, any work on this cable is done by a specialied crew.

Any fault found within the d-side network is ment to be located & repaired by the engineer so in theory the d-side network is kept up to condition and this sysem works in the main.
Sometimes the fault may be between 2 nodes and some where you can't get at, then to provide service is there's a good spare (always test what you're looking at), then a pair change can be done. As this is typicaly between 2 nodes rather then the complete pair between exchange and cab/pcp, keeping a record of changes would become unfeasible. If there's no good spares then this may have to go for a cable renewal, civil works dig, from there the cost skyrockets.

I would think what's happened is an identifiable condition on the line affecting your POTS has been found and a pair change done in order to give you service again. For some reason (possibly linked to the inital pairs problem) the new pair has another condition which is affecting only your broadband. As you've seen some engineers working in a nearby joint and there's more than one, next question is are they doing additional work (ie a cable change) linked to your intitial problem.

Eitherway it's work raising a fault via your isp. As you need an engineer with access to APtS to test any thing done on the network based on dsl results as weel as typical tests

Now as for the conveluted way broadband faults are raised and closed compaired to POTS faults. the reason is the way this works was it was set up by a body based on a very simplified idea of what a broadband fault could be and how it's fixed (COUGHFCOM! excuse me, need to that sore throght sorted) Also some times the fault may get raised for the dsl to be checked from the exchange. A frames engineer can only recheck the wiring in the exchange an check there is sync from the output (for a reason I can't understand) they don't even have attenuators to test sync under load. after closing the task it's then up to the isp if they want to raise another fault for it to be looked into further.
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graevine1

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Re: Major line problem
« Reply #33 on: March 04, 2008, 04:08:49 PM »

Azzaka,
Our research shows that their note books contain personal notes but when those Maintence staff in the field go to faults they go "blind" on the fault as in many areas faults are dished out on the basis of the system simply alocating them to staff in the order they come in. That was also the system operating some years ago, so there is no change there.

I have yet to see any notes in the "CAB" except where work is in progress.

The faults man/maintenance engineer makes in many cases notes in his note book to be entered into the system when booking off his faults either by lap top on site or at the end of a preset time period or at the end of the day.
Records are NOT kept in regard to the "D" side.

On a "D" side run when a joint is opened then the jointer may clear faults from other causes on other pairs to the pair he is investigating. He may by accident cause the odd fault to occur on a previously good pair when closing the joint. Seen it myself on many occasions in the past. Little has changed over the years in what I and others consider a thoroughly bad practice. Poor old customer, still if you want any form of service you simply just have to pay !!!!!!!!!!!1
 
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graevine1

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Re: Major line problem
« Reply #34 on: March 04, 2008, 04:14:37 PM »

I agree completly with the comments made by Ezzer above who was posting a reply at the same time as myself.

I add that OFCOM is about as much use as a "teapot made of chocolate" has a total misunderstanding of what all of us understand by a "proactive approach" and should be subject to a thorough investigation and independent audit.
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Ezzer

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Re: Major line problem
« Reply #35 on: March 04, 2008, 04:24:17 PM »

I would love to have a senior Offcom person spend at least a week with me. Oficialy all you do on a broad band fault is test from either the mdf,cab,dp,nte5. try changing a pair/dropwire between any of those or fit a ssfp faceplate on the nte5, hence 2 hours then leave the fault.

As quite a few posts on this site lends to belive, things may sometimes be a bit more tricky
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MikeS

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Re: Major line problem
« Reply #36 on: March 04, 2008, 04:56:13 PM »

On the subject of maintenance notes, I have had a number of engineers visits over the last year.  Several of them have asked me what the previous guy had done.  When I asked them - didn't they get a list of what had been done on previous visits when they were given the job  - they said no.  Evidently it was sometimes possible to get notes but it was a bit of a pain and involving several phone calls and there was no guarantee you would get them, so generally they didn't bother, particularly as they only had 2 hours to complete the job. 
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kitz

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Re: Major line problem
« Reply #37 on: March 04, 2008, 05:44:58 PM »

Thanks Ezzer for the explanation wrt recording of faults.

>> I would think what's happened is an identifiable condition on the line affecting your POTS has been found and a pair change done in order to give you service again../snip/.. the new pair has another condition which is affecting only your broadband.

I think thats something we are all in agreement on. :)

>> COUGHFCOM

I think my thoughts are already well known.   :-X

>> Eitherway it's work raising a fault via your isp. As you need an engineer with access to APtS to test any thing done on the network based on dsl results as weel as typical tests

Any comments on that one from Plusnet?
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Ezzer

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Re: Major line problem
« Reply #38 on: March 04, 2008, 05:47:13 PM »

No job notes from the previous fault/s, Sometimes you get a date and a fault clear code. It's infuriating,
Supposed to look into each fault afresh and not assume a previous fault has relavence to a new one, although broadband faults feel a different matter,  Otherwise there is a good amount of info exchanged between engineers in any area, particuarly if there is a problem area

The record of d-sides is between the pcp/cab and the dp is recorded and is changed if required, it's the bits in between which can change. Because usualy if there's a fault on someones line, then the fault is located and cured before it starts affecting everyone else via that route, hopefully that part of the network should be reliable for a long time afterwards. E-sides get physicaly worked on far less because there is so much more d-side It's like comparing hte lenght of tree trunk to the combined lenght of all the branches

The problem with Broadband is you can get everything testing ok at the time you arrive (the little gremlin has spotted the engineer and left the network alone for now >:D) Typicaly we may try one or two amendments which we can suspect might make a difference Hence some of the posts where some one may say "saw the engineer go an do something up the pole and adjusted this but afterwards the problem started again"

This only happens on a very small percentage of faults but the annoyance factor more than makes up for the rest
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Ezzer

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Re: Major line problem
« Reply #39 on: March 04, 2008, 05:56:39 PM »

Kitz I posted about the same time as yourself ref your last point

If an ISP raises a fault then it will go to a Broadband engineer

A SP for POTS/PSTN will go to either non-dsl or dsl engineer.

(although there was a suspision some ISP's were trying the POTS route for a particular reason, Plus net by the way wasn't one of them)

Hence you need to call your SP for POTS faults and ISP for any Broadband faults, if you have a problem with both, go for your SP as any POTS fault will likely be causing the Broadband Issue.

(by the way I some times Type DSL instead of Broadband cos it's easyer ;))

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MikeS

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Re: Major line problem
« Reply #40 on: March 04, 2008, 06:43:02 PM »

 - Any comments on that one from Plusnet -

Latest message from the Plusnet member centre about an hour ago

We have checked the progress of your fault with our supplier. At the moment this is still being investigated by their diagnostics team. We will continue to check for updates and let you know as soon as we have more information

Holding of breath no recommended - started looking at local WISP's  - thought of no BT wires is almost magical
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kitz

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Re: Major line problem
« Reply #41 on: March 04, 2008, 08:05:44 PM »

>> Holding of breath no recommended

  :(
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MikeS

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Re: Major line problem
« Reply #42 on: March 05, 2008, 02:25:22 PM »

The latest situation.  After the DSLAM reboot the line card has been reset today.  The line speed has been set to 750, if that proves stable then it will be increased to a higher value at sometime in the future.  I'm finding this all very confusing. 


Currently sync'ing at 928 at 6dB SNR. 
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roseway

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Re: Major line problem
« Reply #43 on: March 05, 2008, 04:05:40 PM »

It's still a pretty poor speed for your line, and as the noise margin is only the bare 6 dB you're not going to squeeze much more out of it. If you get the same result when connecting directly to the test socket, then you've still got a line fault, and I'm afraid it's back to PlusNet to insist that the problem hasn't been fixed.
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MikeS

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Re: Major line problem
« Reply #44 on: March 05, 2008, 05:01:27 PM »

- It's still a pretty poor speed for your line -

Yes I know, for the last three months it's been 4000-4500.  The trouble is Plusnet don't seem to get it.  They've reset the line card/DSLAM, upped the IP profile to 750 (for which I am grateful) but are now talking about seeing if my line is stable.  Regardless of whether it's stable or not it is still sync'ing at only 900 ish, as you pointed out.  Two day ago they were asking me when I was available for an engineers visit, that seems to have dropped off the agenda, in preference to 'waitng to see if my line is stable'.  That's why amongst other things I'm confused, I don't understand quite where they are going.
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