Kitz ADSL Broadband Information
adsl spacer  
Support this site
Home Broadband ISPs Tech Routers Wiki Forum
 
     
   Compare ISP   Rate your ISP
   Glossary   Glossary
 
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Pages: 1 ... 22 23 [24] 25 26 ... 62

Author Topic: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.  (Read 266116 times)

kitz

  • Administrator
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 31971
  • Trinity: Most guys do.
    • http://www.kitz.co.uk
Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #345 on: May 24, 2015, 01:54:07 PM »

@ BE - Our last posts crossed.

I hadn't realised that your line was one of those which lost speed since G.INP.   For some reason I thought you had seen an improvement.
I have to admit there are some threads that Ive skimmed over or not read recently because inbetween hospitals/vets and not being here a lot of the time I am struggling very badly to keep up with everything :stress: 

Ive just tried to look at your full monty now.  Bit overwhelmed with info and took me a while to find what I was looking for, but I can see what looks like a slight decrease on about the 3rd of May which is I assume what you are talking about.  I can clearly see the spike on 4th May and that you are quite a lot worse using that f/w, so taking everything into account a guess I would think its more likely to be yet another crosstalk disturber :(

It was a good idea to use Asbokids f/w as a test, because it gives you a rough idea of what your line conditions would now be like if you were using an ECI modem on a Huawei cab.  I cant see the exact figures, but it looks like g.inp would cost you 5Mb of sync speed if you werent using the HG612 :(
Logged
Please do not PM me with queries for broadband help as I may not be able to respond.
-----
How to get your router line stats :: ADSL Exchange Checker

les-70

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1228
Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #346 on: May 24, 2015, 02:03:07 PM »

 It is interesting that there is low level of error correction on the upstream.  I do wonder what low level correction options are possible.  To me the silly thing about the DLM configuration, which always annoys, is always using the higher level of interleaving.   Imposing levels of interleaving which should reduce errors by a factors of 2 or 3 in stages would make the whole process much more friendly than the current approach of hit it hard and reduce errors by a large factor to very low levels.

 
Logged

Bald_Eagle1

  • Helpful
  • Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2720
Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #347 on: May 24, 2015, 02:13:13 PM »

It was a good idea to use Asbokids f/w as a test, because it gives you a rough idea of what your line conditions would now be like if you were using an ECI modem on a Huawei cab.  I cant see the exact figures, but it looks like g.inp would cost you 5Mb of sync speed if you werent using the HG612 :(


My CRC & Error Seconds counts have been almost non-existent since G.INP was activated, so that's the 'improvement' I've seen.



I'm just a little concerned about what is going to happen from 26th May (or whenever the update is made to my Huawei DSLAM).

I'm hoping BTOR's changes will only really affect connections that aren't using G.INP ready modems.


The attachments show what negative effect disabling G.INP now has on my connection.

The first example is using Asbokid's SP10 firmware (not G.INP).

The second example is from today, using Wolfy's SP08 firmware (G.INP active)

Logged

tommy45

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 562
Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #348 on: May 24, 2015, 02:32:17 PM »

Yes lets hope they don't bork things further, and cause issues to those who have benefited from G.inp
Logged

NewtronStar

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 4817
Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #349 on: May 24, 2015, 02:35:18 PM »

Yes lets hope they don't bork things further, and cause issues to those who have benefited from G.inp

It's the reason why i have gone back to using the HG612 as the modem because i just don't know if the BrightBox 2 is G.INP capable hopefully when the G.INP rollout begins again my line will pick it up again and then test the BB2 box.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2015, 02:40:04 PM by NewtronStar »
Logged

kitz

  • Administrator
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 31971
  • Trinity: Most guys do.
    • http://www.kitz.co.uk
Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #350 on: May 24, 2015, 02:41:39 PM »

Quote
I'm just a little concerned about what is going to happen from 26th May

From what I can gather you shouldn't be affected.
 
The changes apply to the DLM's default nonReTX profile, which applies to those lines using a non-ginp compatible modem. 
The DSLAM is able to detect if the modem is g.inp compatible or not, so nothing any different should occur for those already sucessfully on a G.INP profile.



Thanks for the stats - this is very interesting because its the first full set of stats that Ive seen for any non G.INP modem and it provides a full picture of the true situation.  Something weve been unable to do in the past due to the ECI/HH5A not having access to proper stats

What would be really interesting is to compare those stats you do have so far, with a new set using Asbo's f/w after the new changes have been applied*. Did you happen to make a note of your latency ie PING to bbc whilst using the old f/w on the 4th May as it would be interesting to compare the three sets.   It may give us a much better idea just what BT are doing.



*Note changes only roll out from 26th of May and it may take several days/weeks for all cabinets to be updated.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2015, 03:59:24 PM by kitz »
Logged
Please do not PM me with queries for broadband help as I may not be able to respond.
-----
How to get your router line stats :: ADSL Exchange Checker

NewtronStar

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 4817
Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #351 on: May 24, 2015, 03:02:13 PM »


The changes apply to the DLM's default nonReTX profile, which applies to those lines using a non-ginp compatible modem. 
The DSLAM is able to detect if the modem is g.inp compatible or not, so nothing any different should occur for those already sucessfully on a G.INP profile.

Could i ask a question in relation to the above, if the modem is non compatible with G.INP then will that meen your line won't be G.INP enabled and how long do you think it takes the DSLAM to register a modem that is compatible with G.INP ?
Logged

Chrysalis

  • Content Team
  • Addicted Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5694
Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #352 on: May 24, 2015, 03:39:10 PM »

Thanks for that clarification, Kitz.

Just one question though.......

You mention this:-

"Interleaving causes DELAY - ie increase in latency/ping times. Interleaving does NOT cause loss of sync speed."


For every non-G.INP VDSL2 connection that I have seen stats for since 2011, a switch from fastpath to Interleaved has ALWAYS coincided with an increase in attainable rate & definitely a decrease in sync speed.

When fastpath and/or reduced Interleaving depth have been restored, attainable rate has reduced again & sync speed has increased.

Do you have an explanation for this?

Based on what you say, my suspicion (but that's all it is) is that sync speed has been reduced by DLM to provide more stability, alongside Interleaving/delay etc.


From the limited detailed stats I have seen from G.INP active connections to date, it appears that a reduction in Bearer 0 Interleaving depth etc. has actually resulted in slightly LOWER sync speeds.




Thats because they enable FEC as well.

FEC and interleaving are two different things.
Logged
Sky Fiber Pro - Billion 8800NL bridge & PFSense BOX running PFSense 2.4 - ECI Cab - LINE STATISTICS CLICK HERE

Bald_Eagle1

  • Helpful
  • Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2720
Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #353 on: May 24, 2015, 03:40:58 PM »

From what I can gather you shouldn't be unaffected.


Unintended double negative, perhaps?
 
Quote

The changes apply to the DLM's default nonReTX profile, which applies to those lines using a non-ginp compatible modem. 
The DSLAM is able to detect if the modem is g.inp compatible or not, so nothing any different should occur for those already sucessfully on a G.INP profile.


Quote
Thanks for the stats - this is very interesting because its the first full set of stats that Ive seen for any non G.INP modem and it provides a full picture of the true situation.  Something weve been unable to do in the past due to the ECI/HH5A not having access to proper stats

What would be really interesting is to compare those stats you do have so far, with a new set using Asbo's f/w after the new changes have been applied*. Did you happen to make a note of your latency ie PING to bbc whilst using the old f/w on the 4th May as it would be interesting to compare the three sets.   It may give us a much better idea just what BT are doing.



*Note changes only roll out from 26th of May and it may take several days/weeks for all cabinets to be updated.



I will indeed try Asbo's firmware again once I'm certain that my cabinet has been updated.

Sorry, but I don't pay too much attention to latency as it never seems to be an issue here.
I don't have any records apart from an occasional Speedtest.net speed test.
From those tests, Ping is usually around 13 or so.



FWIW, 26th May is pretty much a key date for me.

It was the date my connection's intermittent line fault was finally repaired after 11 months of 'faffing about' trying to firstly deny there was a fault, then attempting to find it.

It is the date from which Huawei DSLAMS start to be updated again.




Oh. I almost forgot.........................(Don't tell Mrs. Eagle)

It's also my wedding anniversary  :angel: :lol:


« Last Edit: May 24, 2015, 03:45:54 PM by Bald_Eagle1 »
Logged

kitz

  • Administrator
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 31971
  • Trinity: Most guys do.
    • http://www.kitz.co.uk
Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #354 on: May 24, 2015, 03:50:04 PM »


Could i ask a question in relation to the above, if the modem is non compatible with G.INP then will that meen your line won't be G.INP enabled and how long do you think it takes the DSLAM to register a modem that is compatible with G.INP ?

Yep sure.   The DSLAM will recognise immediately if the modem is g.inp compatible or not.
If it is compatible then it will use the set G.INP profile determined by the DLM.
If it is incompatible then it falls over to the non-ReTX profiles.


What can cause delays is if the non-ReTX profile has sufficiently 'degraded' the line rate to take it into a lower banding.  If the line has been banded then it may take several days of stability before it relents on the banded profile. 
You may still see some immediate recovery though even if its just a slight increase in speed or decrease latency, it will just take longer to recover fully, in the same way that it may take a while for the DLM to relent after a line fault.  Banding is separate again from Error Correction which is separate from Interleaving.
Logged
Please do not PM me with queries for broadband help as I may not be able to respond.
-----
How to get your router line stats :: ADSL Exchange Checker

kitz

  • Administrator
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 31971
  • Trinity: Most guys do.
    • http://www.kitz.co.uk
Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #355 on: May 24, 2015, 03:58:59 PM »

Unintended double negative, perhaps?

Oops :blush: Thank you I'll edit :)

Quote
I will indeed try Asbo's firmware again once I'm certain that my cabinet has been updated.

Thank you I will be most interested in seeing them :)

Quote

Sorry, but I don't pay too much attention to latency as it never seems to be an issue here.
I don't have any records apart from an occasional Speedtest.net speed test.
From those tests, Ping is usually around 13 or so.

Damn, would have been interesting to see what latency had been applied for the nonReTx profile as this was one of the major areas for complaint.   
Ive seen latency go anything up to 50ms, but at least we still do have some interesting stats to play with :)

Quote
FWIW, 26th May is pretty much a key date for me.

I hope it was a case of last but not least, and you better not forget,  otherwise you may be feeling the sharp peck of Mrs Eagle's beak.  :D
Happy Anniversary  :congrats:

Logged
Please do not PM me with queries for broadband help as I may not be able to respond.
-----
How to get your router line stats :: ADSL Exchange Checker

kitz

  • Administrator
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 31971
  • Trinity: Most guys do.
    • http://www.kitz.co.uk
Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #356 on: May 24, 2015, 04:05:11 PM »

@ BE Ive just had a look at your stats between the two

Non g.inp
Code: [Select]
D: 293   89

g.inp
Code: [Select]
D: 8    2


Looks like your latency would have increased by quite a lot. 
I dont know how to convert it into real time figures but it seems awfully high  :'(
Logged
Please do not PM me with queries for broadband help as I may not be able to respond.
-----
How to get your router line stats :: ADSL Exchange Checker

NewtronStar

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 4817
Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #357 on: May 24, 2015, 04:24:26 PM »

and/or the slight increase in line attenuation that I see as the weather warms up every year?

You are not alone BE1 with yearly attenuation fluctuation, when looking back though the stats my attenuation in winter is around 24.5 and now it's 24.8 and by July it will be 25.0, I know it does sound like very much but on the longer line it can make a difference.
Logged

Bald_Eagle1

  • Helpful
  • Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2720
Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #358 on: May 24, 2015, 04:52:52 PM »

@ BE Ive just had a look at your stats between the two

Non g.inp
Code: [Select]
D: 293   89

g.inp
Code: [Select]
D: 8    2


Looks like your latency would have increased by quite a lot. 
I dont know how to convert it into real time figures but it seems awfully high  :'(

Non-G.INP (Asbo SP10)
Code: [Select]
D: 293 89
R: 16 16
INP: 3.00 4.00
delay: 8.00 8.00

G.INP (Wolfy SP08)
Code: [Select]
Bearer 0: D: 8 2
Bearer 0: R: 14 14
Bearer 0: INP 46.00 43.00
Bearer 0: INPRein: 0.00 0.00
Bearer 0: delay: 0 0

Bearer 1: D: 1 1
Bearer 1: R: 16 16
Bearer 1: INP: 2.50 4.00
Bearer 1: INPRein: 2.50 4.00
Bearer 1: delay: 0 0

« Last Edit: May 24, 2015, 04:55:56 PM by Bald_Eagle1 »
Logged

tommy45

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 562
Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #359 on: May 24, 2015, 06:16:04 PM »

Mine once the circuit had been G.inped and i swapped ECI to HG612  prior to DLM changing the profile from fall back , interleave had been on the DS only for 14 days prior to G.inp being applied which resulted in another 7-8ms of latency and a further loss of downstream sync, (throughput was reduced and IP profile set to a lower  rate) the  adding of interleave to the upstream also impacted the upstream throughput max rate

 Base Latency when fast path was 11-13ms depending which ISP gateway/endpoint i was connected to the ds interleaving added the 7-8ms  so increased to  18-21ms  then G.inp profile applied whilst using ECI resulted in a further increase of 7-8, so base latency was up to 27-29ms once G.inp working  base latency 12-13ms

Code: [Select]
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 31464 Kbps, Downstream rate = 84808 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 69311 Kbps

Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 6.3 10.7
Attn(dB): 13.5 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 12.5 3.2
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: 18 36
B: 45 29
M: 1 1
T: 64 64
R: 14 10
S: 0.0211 0.0476
L: 22736 6717
D: 1219 673
I: 60 40
N: 60 40
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 148176 43994
OHFErr: 0 0
RS: 37745881 3997337
RSCorr: 25 0
RSUnCorr: 0 0

Bearer 0
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 26754701 0
Data Cells: 5492 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 37 37
AS: 201

Bearer 0
INP: 3.00 4.00
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 6 8
PER: 1.35 4.59
OR: 141.54 73.18
AgR: 69452.43 20072.59

Bitswap: 4/4 0/0


G.inped profile after some 48hrs of swapping to HG612 modem

Code: [Select]
=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~= Plink log 2015.03.18 05:07:23 =~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=

xdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 1
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 32160 Kbps, Downstream rate = 84864 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 20000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 79999 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 7.1 13.9
Attn(dB): 13.5 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 12.4 3.2
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: -6 -6
B: 130 97
M: 1 1
T: 0 0
R: 8 8
S: 0.0518 0.1554
L: 21468 5457
D: 16 8
I: 139 106
N: 139 106
Q: 16 8
V: 14 2
RxQueue: 57 39
TxQueue: 19 13
G.INP Framing: 18 18
G.INP lookback: 19 13
RRC bits: 24 24
Bearer 1
MSGc: 186 58
B: 0 0
M: 2 2
T: 2 2
R: 16 16
S: 5.3333 16.0000
L: 48 16
D: 3 1
I: 32 32
N: 32 32
Q: 0 0
V: 0 0
RxQueue: 0 0
TxQueue: 0 0
G.INP Framing: 0 0
G.INP lookback: 0 0
RRC bits: 0 0
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 0 0
OHFErr: 0 0
RS: 4538432 1520719
RSCorr: 0 0
RSUnCorr: 0 0
Bearer 1
OHF: 3735 3692
OHFErr: 0 0
RS: 44078 14770
RSCorr: 0 0
RSUnCorr: 0 0

Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx: 0 0
rtx_c: 0 0
rtx_uc: 0 0

G.INP Counters
LEFTRS: 0 0
minEFTR: 79999 19997
errFreeBits: 73210 17995

Bearer 0
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 9190749 0
Data Cells: 2499 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

Bearer 1
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 0 0
Data Cells: 0 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 11 1
SES: 10 0
UAS: 69 59
AS: 61

Bearer 0
INP: 46.00 47.00
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 0.00 0.00
OR: 0.01 0.01
AgR: 80614.82 20102.08

Bearer 1
INP: 4.00 4.00
INPRein: 4.00 4.00
delay: 3 0
PER: 16.06 16.06
OR: 95.62 31.87
AgR: 95.62 31.87

Bitswap: 0/0 0/0
« Last Edit: May 24, 2015, 06:29:25 PM by tommy45 »
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 22 23 [24] 25 26 ... 62