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Author Topic: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.  (Read 266413 times)

Black Sheep

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Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #315 on: May 22, 2015, 12:15:00 PM »

Good news. Cheers.
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NewtronStar

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Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #316 on: May 22, 2015, 12:28:39 PM »

Excellent News  :yay:
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ktz392837

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Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #317 on: May 22, 2015, 12:34:21 PM »

The repair is due to roll out for all relevant customers within the next few weeks, but unfortunately we are not able to put anyone to the head of the queue
Does anyone know what they have fixed? Is this good news for people with ECI cabinets or does it just fix problems with Ginp on Huwaii cabinets? Thanks
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simoncraddock

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Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #318 on: May 22, 2015, 12:39:09 PM »

Sound like the Huawei Cab>ECI modem fix.
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KIAB

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Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #319 on: May 22, 2015, 12:39:39 PM »

Some great news.

I knew there was a problem with ECI cabinets, but, what was problems with Ginp on Huwaii cabinets?



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simoncraddock

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Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #320 on: May 22, 2015, 12:42:40 PM »

Speed drop and added latency when using ECI modem on lines served by Huawei cabs.
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kitz

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Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #321 on: May 22, 2015, 12:52:25 PM »

Quote
Openreach are very happy with the results of the trail and after some consultation they have now decided to roll this fix out across the network.

Thanks for that licquorice.    I havent been following the trials too closely this past week because Ive been elsewhere most of the time, but last I heard they'd 'fixed' the interleaving issue which resulted in latency returning to normal, but they still left on Error Correction so not everyone regained sync speed lost because of the RS overheads.

In fact correspondence I had from Openreach earlier this week seemed to imply Error Correction was still applied.   Has this changed since?
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kitz

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Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #322 on: May 22, 2015, 12:54:34 PM »

Sound like the Huawei Cab>ECI modem fix.

Its not an ECI fix, afaik its more of a DLM /technology type change.
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Chrysalis

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Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #323 on: May 22, 2015, 01:18:14 PM »

Seems some new firmware has been rolled to HH5A trial hubs, rumours are its to do with g.inp.

Not much info on the effect of DLM changes on ECI devices, one guy posted some info that suggest improvement was lacking but then I seen others who said they recovered performance at least on pings (not sure about speeds).

I asked someone I know who works in Belgium for Belgacom (their version of BT) and he said fast path can be used on upstream with g.inp on downstream.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2015, 01:22:34 PM by Chrysalis »
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underzone

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Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #324 on: May 22, 2015, 02:58:15 PM »

That news has made my day! I thought my ECI cab was obsolete!
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Ragnarok

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Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #325 on: May 22, 2015, 04:19:01 PM »

That news has made my day! I thought my ECI cab was obsolete!

There was no specificity in the news, all we can read into it at the moment is that they are happy with the way this new trial configuration worked. They didn't mention which cabs it was, I can only assume it was huawei cabs and reducing or eliminating interleaving, on slightly or fully incompatible devices.

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Chrysalis

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Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #326 on: May 22, 2015, 04:43:40 PM »

also bear in mind openreach been happy might not mean the same thing as end users been happy, we need to wait and see.
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NewtronStar

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Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #327 on: May 22, 2015, 06:49:18 PM »

we need to wait and see.

That sounds like good advise.
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Ragnarok

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Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #328 on: May 22, 2015, 11:45:49 PM »

also bear in mind openreach been happy might not mean the same thing as end users been happy, we need to wait and see.

Some of us are very hard to please! I suspect we'll get the usual drip feed, or here about it first when forum members report changes to their lines.
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kitz

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Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #329 on: May 23, 2015, 07:04:58 PM »

UPDATE

I'm seeing the rumour mill starting again and misquoting :( so I think we need to bring back some facts.  I have some information direct from Openreach, some of the information is incomplete and needs further clarification, but from what I have so far, we may at least be able to fill in some of the blanks:

  • The trials were only on Huawei cabs.  There are no official plans yet to enable it on the ECI cabs.*
  • The changes for those on Huawei cabs will start being rolled out on the 26th of May.
  • The changes will be more of a DLM type configuration ie if the modem does not support G.INP then the (new) default profile can use both Interleaving and Error Correction if need be, but now by default Interleaving will be removed from the upstream  The DSLAM is able to detect if the CPE is G.INP compatible or not

There is no definition of what BT call 'the fix'.   Lines appear to have been put on FAST path, but its unclear if Error Correction has been turned off and what effect this has on the sync speed.  The previous non Re-Tx profile automatically applied Interleaving.  This is what has now been removed.

I not aware of an ECI modem software fix being rolled out to enable upstream g.inp as per what TP-Link has done.  I have asked for clarification on this, but in the absence of hard facts, its possible that it could be a hardware limitation of the individual Customer Premise Equipment (CPE) for more information why this may be see information on G.INP below. 

It may be possible to update the HomeHub 5A's as they have different internal hardware to the ECI modems and may have more memory and processing power due to it being a full modem/router.  I believe it has a more powerful PSU but I dont know for sure.   



More info on G.INP/Re-Transmission.

Because of the way G.INP works, it requires a retransmission buffer which temporary stores all transmitted data until the other end acknowledges safe receipt of the data.  If the receiving end Frame Check Sequence (FCS) is corrupt then data can be restored from the buffer.  The modem/router is responsible for storing re-tx upstream data and obviously this requires that the CPE has sufficient memory and processing resources.  G.INP typically causes latency of 1.5 - 2ms each way, but it is minimal compared to older form of Interleaving and Reed Solomon encoding.

Note that the 'local' device is responsible for buffering of the transmitted data.  The CPE is responsible for buffering the upstream data it sends.  The DSLAM is responsible for buffering any data it transmits ie it's upstream data which will be the CPE downstream.   

Where this leaves the ECI DSLAMs, I dont know.  I have asked for clarification but nothing has been forthcoming so far.
 
Quote from: BT Openreach
"although ECI equipment (either modems or DSLAMS) doesn’t currently support upstream retransmission"

Souce = ISPreview



To clarify further (This info is not from Openreach)

- Interleaving causes DELAY - ie increase in latency/ping times. Interleaving alone does NOT cause reduction of sync speed.
- Error Correction is the transmission of redundant data so that data can be recovered in the event of small noise bursts. The redundant data causes overheads and the reduction in sync speed.

Historically BT switched on Error Correction and Interleaving at the same time, but they are totally independent.  It is possible to use Error Correction on 'FAST' path.  This will restore latency but will not recover any of the large losses in sync speed.

Because of the inability to log proper stats on the HomeHub5 & ECI modems, it is impossible to tell what Openreach have done to resolve this situation.  I've seen mention that most seem to have recovered latency but not all have recovered the loss in sync speed.   There is only one result that I've seen whose stats I would consider trustworthy.  They do appear to have recovered some of their sync speed, but because that particular line was able to sync easily at 80/20 its unclear if Error Correction has been turned off.  **  There is still the odd report of non recovery of full sync speed :/

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*bar a few trial cabinets. (We are already aware of these ie Martlesham Heath).

** Line is now syncing at 79906 with a max data rate of 88845, so there is a small amount of overhead less in this case.  Because the max attainable is more than the sync, its unclear how much of this is overheads and how much it would affect lines previously unable to attain the full 80/20.
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