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Author Topic: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.  (Read 271549 times)

blue166

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Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #240 on: April 30, 2015, 07:29:01 AM »

That picture is scary and no way will I settle for my broadband to go down the drain without a fight. It will be criminal for Openreach to deploy this on ECI cabs and Modems.

I have also posted on the BT forums but clearly just get replies from the "I'm ok jack" so usless posting there. They don't get it.

I just hope OR do not deploy this system on ECI hardware. Would that effect G.Fast in the future?

Going back to what Kitz mentioned earlier regarding not everyone can fall back on cable. That is very true and another reason OR can't push out a config which ruins stable connections.
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Chrysalis

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Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #241 on: April 30, 2015, 08:02:44 AM »

long story short, end users shouldnt pay the price for openreach going cheap on the ECI cabs to save a few pennies.

If they try, I will make a LOT of noise.
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kitz

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Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #242 on: April 30, 2015, 08:15:34 AM »

kitz am I ok to post that pic elsewhere?

Yep sure.  It was made to share :)
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tbailey2

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Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #243 on: April 30, 2015, 08:36:17 AM »

Shame the Huawei modem used a different server - Bristol not London. Apart from that, good graphic :)

Photoshop? :-\
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jelv

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Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #244 on: April 30, 2015, 09:09:30 AM »

My one concern about the image is not the different server (which wouldn't make that much difference) but the widely different dates and times which could mean contention was a factor. It does mean the ECI potentially was even worse!
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Dray

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Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #245 on: April 30, 2015, 09:15:04 AM »

I'm just thinking of the knee-jerk reaction by those in denial, such as you find on the BT Community.
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Black Sheep

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Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #246 on: April 30, 2015, 09:34:50 AM »

We shall have to see what they come up with.   The only excuse that I can think is that we know this was tested before they made changes to the DLM late last year.   The current DLM system seems to be particularly harsh with the application of interleaving and this will be what causing most of the issues with latency and lack of speed.   Anyhow I await a further reply before I jump the gun and lets hope they can do something to sort it, otherwise there will be a lot of unhappy hectors :(

The way I read it, and this is only my personal opinion, is along the lines Kitz has mentioned above. Please people, take a breath ............. it's being worked on.
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MartinW

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Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #247 on: April 30, 2015, 12:44:00 PM »

Well, this is odd and possibly a little depressing!

HG612 arrived today so I've reflashed it to the latest I could find (SP08 software and 38m.d24j f/w) and there is no immediate difference. I figured it may take 24h or more to see a difference but in the meantime I wanted to confirm if G.INP is really the route cause of my speed drop and ping increase. Bear in mind around half of the 20mbit d/l drop was due to a dodgy module in the box up the pole and that is now resolved.

It looks like G.INP is not enabled and Interleave is currently way up at 1141 so I can't really explain my 8Mbit d/l speed drop (I was originally on 80001)

Does G.INP immediately show up if it is enabled? I assume so.

Here is my info from DSLStats...

Code: [Select]
Stats recorded 30 Apr 2015 12:43:18

DSLAM/MSAN type:        BDCM:0xa451 / v0xa451
Modem/router firmware:  AnnexA version - A2pv6C038m.d24j
DSL mode:                VDSL2 Profile 17a
Status:                  Showtime
Uptime:                  1 hours 1 min 59 sec
Resyncs:                0 (since 30 Apr 2015 12:33:45)

Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB):  13.9 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): Not monitored
Connection speed (kbps): 72558 19999
SNR margin (dB):        7.8 12.1
Power (dBm):            13.0 5.0
Interleave depth:        1141 673
INP:                    3.00 4.00
G.INP:                  Not enabled

RSCorr/RS (%):          0.0001 0.0966
RSUnCorr/RS (%):        0.0000 0.0000
ES/hour:                0 0
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AArdvark

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Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #248 on: April 30, 2015, 01:37:15 PM »

MartinW,
Your experience ties in with mine.

BT OR 'played' with my line to fix a fault and G.INP has disappeared and line sync has dropped speed permanently.

I am on a Huawei DSLAM using a Zyxel 8324 modem.

Was getting actual sync 77xxx now 68xxx not happy, because the drop is not for the ususal reasons, it happened within minutes by the line being 'Fixed'.

Plusnet refuse to acknowledge there is a fault becuase the only line fault they recognise is a drop in speed outside 'your estimate range'.
Plusnet cannot recognise the fault is actually BT OR messing up my line as it as syncing at 72xxx with the fault and was dropped to 70000 when fixed.
This was when using a HG612 modem.
It has dropped further to 68xxx which I cannot improve on with the Zyxel, which is at odds with past expereince where I got 5M higher line sync.
I am sticking with the Zyxel as it matches my Gigabit network and is more usable than the HG612.

My estimate range has been dropped as a consequence of 2 speed drops that were faults that BT OR 'Fixed' but didn't.
G.INP has been gone for weeks, might be more than a  month, my memory has blured due to the on going saga with Plusnet. (Do not ask!) >:(  ;D
 
« Last Edit: April 30, 2015, 01:40:59 PM by AArdvark »
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MartinW

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Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #249 on: April 30, 2015, 03:42:24 PM »

MartinW,
Your experience ties in with mine.

BT OR 'played' with my line to fix a fault and G.INP has disappeared and line sync has dropped speed permanently.

I am on a Huawei DSLAM using a Zyxel 8324 modem.

Was getting actual sync 77xxx now 68xxx not happy, because the drop is not for the ususal reasons, it happened within minutes by the line being 'Fixed'.

Plusnet refuse to acknowledge there is a fault becuase the only line fault they recognise is a drop in speed outside 'your estimate range'.
Plusnet cannot recognise the fault is actually BT OR messing up my line as it as syncing at 72xxx with the fault and was dropped to 70000 when fixed.
This was when using a HG612 modem.
It has dropped further to 68xxx which I cannot improve on with the Zyxel, which is at odds with past expereince where I got 5M higher line sync.
I am sticking with the Zyxel as it matches my Gigabit network and is more usable than the HG612.

My estimate range has been dropped as a consequence of 2 speed drops that were faults that BT OR 'Fixed' but didn't.
G.INP has been gone for weeks, might be more than a  month, my memory has blured due to the on going saga with Plusnet. (Do not ask!) >:(  ;D

Well, it would certainly make sense if G.INP was applied around the 31st March as my symptoms were identical to everyone else that has had G.INP applied with ECI modems. I'll leave it as-is for a couple of days and see if any resyncs happen or anything.

Any idea if there is anything I can do about the interleaving depth or is that something that Zen need to do?
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kitz

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Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #250 on: April 30, 2015, 04:47:08 PM »

Well, this is odd and possibly a little depressing!

HG612 arrived today so I've reflashed it to the latest I could find (SP08 software and 38m.d24j f/w) and there is no immediate difference. I figured it may take 24h or more to see a difference but in the meantime I wanted to confirm if G.INP is really the route cause of my speed drop and ping increase. Bear in mind around half of the 20mbit d/l drop was due to a dodgy module in the box up the pole and that is now resolved.

It looks like G.INP is not enabled and Interleave is currently way up at 1141 so I can't really explain my 8Mbit d/l speed drop (I was originally on 80001)

Does G.INP immediately show up if it is enabled? I assume so.

Here is my info from DSLStats...

Code: [Select]
Stats recorded 30 Apr 2015 12:43:18

DSLAM/MSAN type:        BDCM:0xa451 / v0xa451
Modem/router firmware:  AnnexA version - A2pv6C038m.d24j
DSL mode:                VDSL2 Profile 17a
Status:                  Showtime
Uptime:                  1 hours 1 min 59 sec
Resyncs:                0 (since 30 Apr 2015 12:33:45)

Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB):  13.9 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): Not monitored
Connection speed (kbps): 72558 19999
SNR margin (dB):        7.8 12.1
Power (dBm):            13.0 5.0
Interleave depth:        1141 673
INP:                    3.00 4.00
G.INP:                  Not enabled

RSCorr/RS (%):          0.0001 0.0966
RSUnCorr/RS (%):        0.0000 0.0000
ES/hour:                0 0


I don't think yours is related to g.inp.  If it were then this figure:-
Quote
INP:                       3.00      4.00
would be much higher.  Thats the standard (old) DLM settings.
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MikeZ

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Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #251 on: April 30, 2015, 04:50:44 PM »

Does G.INP immediately show up if it is enabled? I assume so.

One or two people on the TBB forums (and also one I read on here) didn't see G.INP enabled until the day after they connected a compatible modem.
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MartinW

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Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #252 on: April 30, 2015, 04:58:51 PM »

I do wonder if I'm just being hit by crosstalk. I was one of the first few people in the town to have Fibre installed (according to the engineer), let alone this cab. That was 5 months ago.

[edit] And meant to add, will wait 24h / 48h and see if anything changes. I'm no longer expecting much.
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kitz

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Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #253 on: April 30, 2015, 04:59:38 PM »

My one concern about the image is not the different server (which wouldn't make that much difference) but the widely different dates and times which could mean contention was a factor. It does mean the ECI potentially was even worse!

I hadnt noticed the dates, although not much I could do as the original graphic was EU complaining of loss of speed and latency.  Took a while to order, receive and install a HG612 from ebay. Shame they dont have one from immediately before putting on the HG612, but the line was one of those that didnt update the DLM until the next day... and then the throughput speed was delayed a bit longer due to the PN profile also needing to adjust :(.   
The HH5A v HH5B is a very good example though.

Speed test is easiest way of showing it - full line stats is too much to put in a graphic.


PS found an in between one for same EU to narrow the timegap, speed not quite as good but this was was at peak so possibly expected - image updated - F5 should refresh it.


--------
btw one other thing Ive noticed, is that the upload speeds never seem to be quite as good.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2015, 05:30:03 PM by kitz »
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BigJ

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Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #254 on: April 30, 2015, 07:23:37 PM »

Hi, new user here. I thought I'd share my experience with an ECI modem with Huawei cab; Apologies for the following long post.

For many weeks now I'd noticed that my speeds had dropped and ping increased. As it was within normally limits I guessed my ISP (plusnet) would tell me to go away. Every now and then my connection would become very slow and on one such occurance, I tested on www.speedtest.btwholesale.com and got through to the 3rd test, DS=27Mbps US=2Mbps. Contacted ISP and after a few days they arranged for an engineer visit but the best time for me was in 5 days. They also reported seeing line drops on the weekend I called. In the meantime I wanted to get stats from my modem and found this great site and read about G.INP.

I used to get DS=60-65Mbps, US=15-16Mbps (btwholesale), IPProfile=64-69M and ping ~10ms (speedtest.net). I'm not exactly sure when, but at some point my downloads dropped to ~52Mbps, IPProfile=54M and ping increased to ~ 25ms. When the engineer came he didn't find anything wrong but agreed something wasn't right and tried a DLM reset which didn't change the IPProfile or download speed.

Got myself a HG612 on 24th Apr. It connected/synced at 57620 Kbps which ties up with the IPProfile 55Mbps. The interleaving seemed quite large at DS=909 & US=673 which I assume accounts for the increased ping of ~15ms I was seeing.
After a day the modem reported G.INP was now enabled with interleaving set to 8 and modem syncing at 67357 Kbps but IPProfile still 55. Ping tests improved ~10ms and upload speeds improved ~5Mbps (btwholesale test) to ~15Mbps.
Second day the IPProfile showed as 65 Mbps which seems right for the sync speed. There has been a general improvement except download which is still stuck at ~53Mbps.

There are however three things which puzzle me still.
1) Why is my download speed still consistantly 12M down on my IPProfile after 4 days?

2) I normally do speedtests with btwholesale and speedtest.net with the later showing US 1-2M greater than BT. When I got G.INP'ed (I'm assuming) my US reported by BT dropped to ~10Mbps while SpeedTest stayed at ~17Mbps. When G.INP was enabled on the HG612, both speedtests reported ~15Mbps.

2) Before G.INP, my reported Noise Margins where DS=6db, US=9db but after G.INP DS=6db, US=12db. I wasn't expecting any change in margin as the noise on my line is still the same. When I switched to using a new shorter modem cable, it resynced with the same results.

Any comments would be appreciated.

Thanks
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