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Author Topic: FTTC and Copper LINE QUALITY  (Read 2563 times)

rgbrgb2001

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FTTC and Copper LINE QUALITY
« on: April 04, 2015, 09:14:54 AM »

Just got talks talks fibre large package which is performing  at 45 % of advertised maximum. I live around 40 metres to my cabinet (35 mbs). This is secondary the copper line to my house and according to talk talk is acceptable. What i am wondering is what is the plan with regard to these lines. Do we have to wait another 10 years until i get fibre direct to my door. Is this a particuly crap copper line and do better ones exist.

Does anyone have any advice/iinsight?


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WWWombat

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Re: FTTC and Copper LINE QUALITY
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2015, 02:12:07 PM »

You should be able to get 80/20 speeds at distances of up to 300 or 400 metres, depending on take-up levels. A speed of 35Mbps would be right for distances nearer 1km.

Are you sure the cabinet 40m away is actually the one you are connected to?

What cabinet does it say, and what speed ranges does it estimate, if you put your phone number in here: http://www.dslchecker.bt.com/adsl/adslchecker.welcome

Does anything change if you put your address in here: http://www.dslchecker.bt.com/adsl/ADSLChecker.AddressOutput
(In this form, you can enter just the postcode; you will then be given a list of addresses to choose from, so you can select yours or choose to compare with your neighbours)

This is secondary the copper line to my house and according to talk talk is acceptable.

I'm not sure I understand you here. What is secondary? Do you mean that the cabinet is a secondary connection point (SCP) rather than a primary (PCP) one?
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rgbrgb2001

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Re: FTTC and Copper LINE QUALITY
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2015, 11:40:40 PM »

Thanks for the reply.

Sorry that was a typo should have read secondary to the copper wire.

According to the openreach engineer the cabinet is at end of the road.the address checker said cabinet 25 in Didsbury so need to check that out exactly where that is. The number checker didnt return anything.

Some Bt customers on my road get 60+ others get 30 for some inexplicable reason.

If it is so close do i have any rights as to minimum line quality.




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Black Sheep

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Re: FTTC and Copper LINE QUALITY
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2015, 10:54:04 AM »

You should have been given at least one estimate of speed before you signed up to the package, usually they would provide two estimates ......... clean and impacted (With minimal cross-talk and vice-versa).

If your speeds are nowhere near this, then they will despatch an engineer to remedy the situation.

There are the usual common culprits though as to why one isn't receiving the estimated speeds.

1) Using a cluttered up PC/Laptop with a wireless connection, as opposed to using an Ethernet.
2) Your installation was 'Cab only' (Self install product), and as such there could be issues with the internal wiring.
3) REIN (Harmful at various frequencies, and may not have affected the previous copper broadband product).

 
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rgbrgb2001

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Re: FTTC and Copper LINE QUALITY
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2015, 11:17:02 AM »

Usual story. Verbally was told 50 plus.day before install email estimate saying 32 to 45.
Dont understand as some people on my road get 60. Bit sneaky.


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rgbrgb2001

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Re: FTTC and Copper LINE QUALITY
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2015, 11:20:20 AM »

PS Connecting via ethernet via clean pc.
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Black Sheep

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Re: FTTC and Copper LINE QUALITY
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2015, 11:45:18 AM »

In the test socket of the master socket ??
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boost

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Re: FTTC and Copper LINE QUALITY
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2015, 01:01:01 PM »

I wonder if it might help to have a 'g0t troubles? Getta BDCM and DSLstats!' type sticky? :)
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WWWombat

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Re: FTTC and Copper LINE QUALITY
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2015, 03:58:41 PM »

Thanks for the reply.

Sorry that was a typo should have read secondary to the copper wire.
I'm still not sure I understand. Anyway...

Quote
According to the openreach engineer the cabinet is at end of the road.the address checker said cabinet 25 in Didsbury so need to check that out exactly where that is. The number checker didnt return anything.

I should have realised - you mentioned Talktalk, so the number won't give a result on that particular checker. What estimates did the address checker give you?

Cab 25 can be found here, on Elm Rd:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.420414,-2.239032,3a,75y,338.91h,56.43t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1scgpneEGIyNrGRGlAkB8Cig!2e0

The FTTC cabinet looks to be around the corner, on the main road. The distance between the 2 cabinets will add 30m onto your line length.

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Some Bt customers on my road get 60+ others get 30 for some inexplicable reason.

It ultimately depends on the length, thickness and materials used. The route the cable takes matters - for some, it loops down the road on one side, and back on the other. The quality of the joints also matter.

You shouldn't necessarily expect that everyone is even on the same cabinet. Where I lived last, some houses were wired overhead out the back (ourselves included) and got 80mbps to the cab in that direction. Some others were wired underground out the front, to a different cabinet, and were estimated at 40-50Mbps. The drop-off to further down the street was quite extreme too - I suspect that there was either thinner wire involved, or aluminium, in the latter part of the street.

On average, a speed of 60Mbps is likely to mean a line length of around 500-600m. A speed of 35Mbps is likely to mean a line length of around 1000m. But those are indeed averages.

Quote
If it is so close do i have any rights as to minimum line quality.

The USC means you have the right to a voice connection, and a minimum of (IIRC) 28Kbps on dial-up. There are indeed minimum quality requirements for these, but nothing as yet for broadband connections.

Usual story. Verbally was told 50 plus.day before install email estimate saying 32 to 45.
Dont understand as some people on my road get 60. Bit sneaky.

One of the things that affects FTTC broadband is known as crosstalk - which is interference caused by other FTTC subscribers. This extra noise causes speed to reduce, and errors to increase - and things only get worse as take-up increases. And we are not talking of small impacts here, either: up to 50% of the theoretical speeds can be lost in the worst case.

Your cab has been in place since 2010, so has had plenty of time to get high take-up.

There's a double-whammy with this noise too. If the error rate increases above a certain threshold, old-style DLM would intervene to introduce error protection. This would increase latency, and reduce speed even further. Thankfully, this style of intervention is being phased out, as we speak.

Unfortunately, without a lot of line statistics from you, we can't really say anything about what state your line is in; we can just let you know about the things that might be affecting it.
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rgbrgb2001

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Re: FTTC and Copper LINE QUALITY
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2015, 08:09:11 PM »

Thanks a heap wwWombat.amazing effort much appreciated.How did you track the cabinet down?

I reckon it is now just the length.Talk talk engineer told me cab was at end of road which it plainly isnt and is about 600 metres away.

thanks for your help,

Dave


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