Kitz ADSL Broadband Information
adsl spacer  
Support this site
Home Broadband ISPs Tech Routers Wiki Forum
 
     
   Compare ISP   Rate your ISP
   Glossary   Glossary
 
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 7

Author Topic: G.FAST  (Read 18254 times)

Dray

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 2362
Re: G.FAST
« Reply #30 on: April 04, 2015, 12:15:44 AM »

Some years back, Bill Gates said "640K is more memory than anyone will ever need"
Logged

NewtronStar

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 4850
Re: G.FAST
« Reply #31 on: April 04, 2015, 12:20:52 AM »

Does an FTTC cab count as an aggregation  node? If so,  I'm currently band A for sure.

200 quid install?

What's the monthly rental on FTTP I wonder!

I'll let you work it out for yourself  ;) but it will cost you 500 + your distance 200 = 700
compare that with your average non LLU monthly bill of 18.00 + line rental 15.00 = 33 a month * 12 = 396 per annum.

http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2013/03/bt-confirm-final-uk-isp-prices-and-launch-of-330mbps-fttp-on-demand.html
« Last Edit: April 04, 2015, 12:32:34 AM by NewtronStar »
Logged

loonylion

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 723
Re: G.FAST
« Reply #32 on: April 04, 2015, 12:26:17 AM »

Some years back, Bill Gates said "640K is more memory than anyone will ever need"

the actual quote was '640k ought to be enough for anyone'. Ironically it was him that ensured it wouldn't be by writing increasingly bloated and inefficient operating systems.
Logged

Dray

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 2362
Re: G.FAST
« Reply #33 on: April 04, 2015, 12:43:07 AM »

He repeatedly denied saying your quote.
Logged

Ronski

  • Helpful
  • Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4039
Re: G.FAST
« Reply #34 on: April 04, 2015, 08:45:26 AM »

What's the monthly rental on FTTP I wonder!

The real killer is the requirement of a 3 yr contract for 330/30 package which costs at least 1188+vat a year, and that is wholesale cost. So whilst some  home users could possibly afford the installation costs the ongoing costs would be far to expensive. The people that would be most interested in FTTPod are probably those getting poorer speeds, and so further from the cab and in all likelihood further from an aggregation node, thus making it even more expensive.

See costs here.
Logged
Formerly restrained by ECI and ali,  now surfing along at 390/36  ;D

Bowdon

  • Content Team
  • Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2175
Re: G.FAST
« Reply #35 on: April 04, 2015, 11:02:11 AM »

I don't understand why its such a high rental charge for the line. It's not like they are doing anything with it constantly. Infact they should have less problems with it than a copper line.

They seemed to price themselves out of it. I did think the ISP would have taken the rental charge hit, but if its the end user then wow.. how did BT ever think that was going to be popular!?

I know someone indirectly who has the 330/30 product.. but im not sure if they pay that much rental for the line. I think it was installed in their newly built apartment flat.
Logged
BT Infinity 2 - Smart Hub 6 - ECI Cab

sorc

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 28
Re: G.FAST
« Reply #36 on: April 04, 2015, 11:19:40 AM »

I'm sort of hoping that they don't go for FTTdp + G.FAST. It seems like yet another short-sighted bodge until they finally decide to FTTP on a wide scale.

Most of what OpenReach does it to make it affordable for all users if i went down the path of FTTP for a 1000m/1km line it would cost me 2500 so you need to be realistic on what you want and what you can afford.  ;)

Is that FTTP on demand or some sort of leased line? That'll change the numbers - and let's not forget that what BT charges you is not necessarily in line with their costs (the cynic would suggest that FoD won't be cheap because it could take away leased line business).

Besides, if BT did embark on some sort of mass FTTP scheme they'd be able to bring costs down through economies of scale - instead of planning and building just for your premises they'll be able to do loads at once. And as I said - if they've got to run 1 or 2km of fibre to give you G.FAST, why not continue for the extra 10 or 20 metres into the home? Not to mention the lower maintenance costs and reduced hassles from being able to reduce or stop using copper.

I guess the key difference will be how much a G.FAST DSLAM on the pole would cost to install and maintain compared to an equivalent number of FTTP installs

(and as I said, I find it hard to accept the "FTTP is too expensive" argument when BT has been deploying FTTP to a lot of very rural and definitely very unprofitable or low-ROI poles/DPs around here. I wonder how much money BT expect to make on FTTP to a pole that has 1 customer who doesn't actually have it installed or indeed no copper users at all, let alone fibre)

I also know someone with 330/30, but they live in an area that has won the "BT technology lottery" (and isn't a new build estate) where BT decided to do FTTP off their own back, so the prices are very reasonable and of course there's no expensive 3-year contract
« Last Edit: April 04, 2015, 11:36:57 AM by sorc »
Logged

Bowdon

  • Content Team
  • Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2175
Re: G.FAST
« Reply #37 on: April 04, 2015, 11:33:11 AM »

In the US it seems to be all FTTP when its deployed.

My gf lives off and on in Wisconsin, a relatively small town. Its so low priority there is only one ISP. But that ISP is now deploying FTTP to her town. So she's going to go from about 2mb currently, up to 1gb download speeds. I'll no longer be able to gloat about my speeds to her  :(

In theory we should be in a much better position than the US as we already have a network nationally.
Logged
BT Infinity 2 - Smart Hub 6 - ECI Cab

sorc

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 28
Re: G.FAST
« Reply #38 on: April 04, 2015, 11:42:05 AM »

Closer to home we have Jersey Telecom who seems to be going for as near as 100% FTTP as they can get (with 1Gbit down, 200Mbit up as their top offering). Obviously that would probably not be achievable at enormous cost in the UK but we could be doing a lot better than we are

And of course there's B4RN up t'north where BT are attempting to compete by overbuilding their own FTTP network. I wonder if they would have even got FTTC if they never showed BT what's what?
Logged

Chrysalis

  • Content Team
  • Addicted Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 6405
Re: G.FAST
« Reply #39 on: April 04, 2015, 11:52:02 AM »

I don't understand why its such a high rental charge for the line. It's not like they are doing anything with it constantly. Infact they should have less problems with it than a copper line.

They seemed to price themselves out of it. I did think the ISP would have taken the rental charge hit, but if its the end user then wow.. how did BT ever think that was going to be popular!?

I know someone indirectly who has the 330/30 product.. but im not sure if they pay that much rental for the line. I think it was installed in their newly built apartment flat.

the price is based on what you get rather than just their own costs, I suspect it can be a few reasons.

1 - to make it unattractive, BT dont want to rollout FTTP, its expensive and cumbersome for them to do so, but they get stick for not putting it on the market so their solution they put it on at an unattractive price point.
2 -to protect leased line revenue's, FTTP will likely be way more reliable than FTTC, so some people would consider ti a viable alternative for business use.
3 - subsidise install fee's, as high as they are its still possible the install fees are still loss making and higher monthly fees are required to cover the cost.

Note FTTP is much cheaper than FTTPoD from BT.
Logged
AAISP - Billion 8800NL bridge & PFSense BOX running PFSense 2.4 - ECI Cab - LINE STATISTICS CLICK HERE

renluop

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 3286
Re: G.FAST
« Reply #40 on: April 04, 2015, 12:18:29 PM »

I think the costs in N'star's link are soon to be upped considerably, if I am reading what I found correctly by 75%. See attached. Now, what could warrant such a hike? Costs or the builder's high estimate for work not wanted?
Logged

c6em

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 503
Re: G.FAST
« Reply #41 on: April 04, 2015, 12:25:30 PM »

And as I said - if they've got to run 1 or 2km of fibre to give you G.FAST, why not continue for the extra 10 or 20 metres into the home? Not to mention the lower maintenance costs and reduced hassles from being able to reduce or stop using copper.

The last 20 yards from the DP is full of aggro'
Note that full FTTP company Gigaclear only do the network connection as far as the front property boundary on the road.
The costs, aggro, time, and arguments over getting the fibre from there across the front garden, though the house walls and on to wherever the end user wants it is entirely at the cost of the end user.
They know those last few yards is just a pile of grief and have off loaded it onto the customer.
Sure, they do offer/recommend the services of a professional fibre installation company as an installation partner to do it - but you go and get a fully commercial type bespoke quote from them for the work.

In fact I'd reckon that a lot of people would favour G.Fast over FTTP precisely because they are not going have all the disruption FTTP entails.
Logged

sorc

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 28
Re: G.FAST
« Reply #42 on: April 04, 2015, 12:30:47 PM »

The last 20 yards from the DP is full of aggro'
Note that full FTTP company Gigaclear only do the network connection as far as the front property boundary on the road.
The costs, aggro, time, and arguments over getting the fibre from there across the front garden, though the house walls and on to wherever the end user wants it is entirely at the cost of the end user.
They know those last few yards is just a pile of grief and have off loaded it onto the customer.
Sure, they do offer/recommend the services of a professional fibre installation company as an installation partner to do it - but you go and get a fully commercial type bespoke quote from them for the work.

In fact I'd reckon that a lot of people would favour G.Fast over FTTP precisely because they are not going have all the disruption FTTP entails.

Difficulty depends on location and how the network is currently built of course, but around here everything is overhead, so copper or fibre are both lower effort (no digging needed) so your argument wouldn't apply to me and people in a similar situation (the general theme for my area seems to be that the older houses have overhead wiring, newer builds are underground and nicely ducted - and indeed BT has done FTTP to those homes)

Virgin seem to manage fine with having to dig people's gardens up to get their coax installed. BT has plenty of experience of same. Perhaps Gigaclear are taking the easy route because they just can't be bothered?

Personally I would hope that long term infrastructure decisions are not made on a one-size-fits-all basis by using limited edge cases - even if it means FTTP for most and G.FAST for the most difficult
« Last Edit: April 04, 2015, 12:45:10 PM by sorc »
Logged

kitz

  • Administrator
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 32653
  • Trinity: Most guys do.
    • http://www.kitz.co.uk
Re: G.FAST
« Reply #43 on: April 05, 2015, 01:11:42 AM »

I too have seen this is on the roadmap, all-be-it an older one than wombat linked to.  I can also recall its been said several times that it would be as an extension from the cab.  BT have always claimed that FTTC isn't wasted technology because the fibre to/from the existing cabs can be extended and further out into the field.
FTTPoD isnt the same as FTTH because that too uses fibre from the cab..  but as far as the customer is concerned and if he can get the speeds then does he really care?

I suppose in a weird way it does actually make good business sense.   The cost to roll out FTTP nationally is hugely expensive and would take an awfully long time, so in the meantime install FTTC so there is some improvement for now... and then in future utilise a good chunk of that fibre to upgrade...  as long as they provision enough capacity. 
Logged
Please do not PM me with queries for broadband help as I may not be able to respond.
-----
How to get your router line stats :: ADSL Exchange Checker

Ronski

  • Helpful
  • Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4039
Re: G.FAST
« Reply #44 on: April 05, 2015, 08:19:08 AM »

I've thought for a long time they are building a full fibre network, just spreading that build over many decades.Gradually the fibres will get closer to everyone's homes.
Logged
Formerly restrained by ECI and ali,  now surfing along at 390/36  ;D
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 7
 

anything