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Author Topic: Query re: OR Engineer visit & Zyxel modem  (Read 14145 times)

burakkucat

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Re: Query re: OR Engineer visit & Zyxel modem
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2015, 03:44:59 PM »

According to our very busy B*Sheep --

Quote
3 lids = JF10 (Jointbox Footway 10), 2 lids = JF6 and 1 lid = JF4. There are other UG structures, but those three are by far and away the most common.  :)
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Semmy

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Re: Query re: OR Engineer visit & Zyxel modem
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2015, 06:31:11 PM »

Yup, looks like a JUF4 to me though I've never seen a horizontal bearer channel before... Every day is a school day!
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AArdvark

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Re: Query re: OR Engineer visit & Zyxel modem
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2015, 08:27:11 PM »

Burakkucat/B*Sheep/Semmy thanks Jointbox was what I was thinking of.
Read it somewhere when reading around all things GPO/BT on the 'interweb'.

I like old engineering stuff (All problems can be solved, just make it bigger and hit it with a bigger hammer ;D) and old Telecoms stuff back to the days of the good old GPO.
Can not say I understand most it  :( ;D
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NewtronStar

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Re: Query re: OR Engineer visit & Zyxel modem
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2015, 09:24:25 PM »

You don't need a hammer these days all you need is a JDSU  ;)
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les-70

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Re: Query re: OR Engineer visit & Zyxel modem
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2015, 11:17:15 AM »

  Looking at MDWS the DLM has hit you again.  With gaps in your record the reason can't be exactly determined from MDWS but it looks like the ES count may be the cause.  Although many seem happy with the Xyxel a few of us have consistently found it to give quite a lot more errors than an HG612 with the latest firmware.  On my line the Xyxel performed well for most of the day but went nuts when ever I had some larger error events. It seems likely that success with the Xyxel depends on the lines error characteristics.

  Should you be able to get back to fast path you may want to consider giving the HG612 a go to see if does run with lower errors.   A safe way of testing devices without risking DLM action can be to cap the sync speed ( e.g. to 60 or 64Mbs/ in your case) so errors keep low and the difference in errors can be compared at a fixed sync speed.
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AArdvark

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Re: Query re: OR Engineer visit & Zyxel modem
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2015, 02:02:25 PM »

Les-70, Thanks for keeping an eye on my stats.

It is useful to get another view on my line.
To clarify I still have a fault condition on my line which has been passed to BT's Telephone Engineers as a phone fault by Plusnet.
I know there is some fault there but cannot identify what yet.

I had run the 'BT Wholesale Broadband Performance Test' to see what the line was now classified as.
I ran all the test including the 3rd test where you connect to the bt_test@startup_domain & speedtest@speedtest_domain.
This still gave a faulty result as classified by BTW.
The gaps are because of Plusnet having a 'Internet access' problem last night at the same time I was running the tests.
I was unable to get a new connection when re-using my correct username/password. [DSL connects OK but PPP will not establish a session]
I did not know if the fault was at my end (Router) or their end (Internet access still not working).
It took me a while to re-try connecting a number of times [PPP connect retries then even power cycles], in-spite of DLM risks, before I tried using the HG612.
The HG612 would not connect ???
Resets of the HG612 / restore saved config / eventually it worked  :D :D :D
Tried Zyxel again still not working / checked settings and (username/password) character by character multiple times yet still failed.
Rolled the Zyxel back to original firmware version and restored original configuration backup.
Yay .... Works at last on the Zyxel.

End Result:
=======
Lots of gaps in stats
DLM kicking me hard again
BT Wholesale Broadband Performance Test states I have a fault [BB]
Phone appears to have a fault [Tele]


Overall a GOOD nights work by all & everything working at optimum ... NOT  :rain:
I will attach screenshots of results from BTW for completeness.

Stay tuned, on this channel,  for the next exciting episode in this 'Digital' Nordic Adventure ....... Real Soon !!!!
 
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AArdvark

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Re: Query re: OR Engineer visit & Zyxel modem
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2015, 10:24:56 PM »

The next exciting episode in this 'Digital' Nordic Adventure ....... Starts Now
Are you sitting comfortably ?
So I will begin ....................


Please read until the end of the missive before comment.  ;D
This is a venting of speen more than anything and a scream to the skies re: OR and some of their Engineers, even if pressured.  ;D


I got a call from Plusnet yesterday (03/04/15) to query the status of my outstanding issue with my line.
I explained that my line was 'stuck' at 66999/20000 after the last OR fix.
I had been at 70000 when the engineer left, which was less than I had been before the fault, and the Engineer had stated if 'DLM does not fix it re-log a call'.
The sync had fallen to 66999 and stayed there for 3 weeks+.
I was able to point to a 64M profile on the line yet I got a 72M Speedtest on the BTW Speedtest.
This did not make sense to me or the Plusnet staff member.

It was agreed, after investigation, that the line appeared to be stuck on a 67M profile and and an OR Engineer would be sent out to reset DLM.
(The suspicion was that DLM reset, that had been promised by the Engineer at the end of the 1st job, had not done.)

Appointment arranged for today (02/04/15) between 08:00 and 13:00.
Engineer rang to query the 'Fault reported' at approx 12:30, and advise he was running late.
I explained that Plusnet had booked the engineer to reset DLM on the line as I had a stuck Profile.

1st response was to talk about attenuation on the line & possible crosstalk which may be responsible for the drop in sync.
(Even though the line tests performed by Plusnet all stated No REIN/RFI/Bridge Taps/Crosstalk detected).
Eventually agreed he would call and check the line.

Engineer arrives at 13:30 approx and immediately checks the physical line at the point of entry to the house. (Tester connected to line and sync checked)
Again straight into the spiel regarding attenuation & Crosstalk and it may be all you can get on the line now.
The intent from opening the door appeared to be 'get me to agree that the issue is simply the usual loss of sync speed due to new users being added to the cab etc.'

I had prepared all the stats and graphs from DSLStats + HGStats (Thank god for BE1, Ronski, & Roseway  ;D) + Plusnets Test results as entered into the call log on the Plusnet website.
I explain the situation again and demonstrate that the evidence to support the contention is not there, as far as I can see.
Round the houses once again re:Attenuation/Crosstalk ..... Yada Yada.
Agrees to check the cab. More testing at the cab and the line bounces up/down etc.
Apparently the port I was connected to was faulty and would not work at more than 71M when set to 80M.

Now getting 61489/19999, No G.INP and lots of Interleaving & delay.
Sync is less than I had before the Engineer arrived !!!
Another round of the usual spiel ..... Yada Yada
I explain with printed docs that the line is now worse than before he touched it.
Engineer trying to close down the call and pass it back to the ISP (Plusnet).
I explain that the ISP cannot impact the line speed in anyway as DLM is deciding what I get.
More discussion and its reaching the 'Its all I can do' point & exit stage left OR Engineer.
I cannot understand how I can have a 'worse line and that is it' and say this to Engineer (politely).
He goes to cab one more time.
Wait 10-15 minutes or so and get call on mobile.

Punch line: (Wait for it ....... wait for it !)

I am now told by the Engineer on the mobile that he has found the problem. Yay

The DSLAM has a fault affecting all users.
After escalating the fault to OR (Internal Support people ???), he had been advised to swap my line to another users 'working port' to test the line.
He swapped me to another port that was being used and found that when tested it was fine BUT randomly the speed would crash to 51M.
This was the fault I had originally on my line. A sudden drop to 52M and dropping (So I was told).

The whole DSLAM needs to be looked at and fixed or replaced.
This impacts approx 45 users on the cab according to Engineer.
So the cab is not exactly full to generate the huge crosstalk impact anyway.

My pain and grief over this is as follows:

1.) The fault was only found due to 'luck' & 'my persistance to NOT accept the Attenuation/Crosstalk spiel'

2.) The Engineer was obviously under extreme time pressure to close all jobs. The average user would have accepted the spiel and be worse off.

3.) The fault had also been missed by another Engineer on the original call. He also was under time pressure and walked off the call too quick.

4.) Only because of the fact I collected Stats, from the earliest date and anticipated the need to 'fight' my corner did this call NOT get closed.

5.) The Engineer found the fault inspite of the pressures put on him by OR, but I have no timescale for the fix nor did the Engineer.

6.) The need for the ability to collect Stats without having to 'Hack' your modem is self-evident, and should be supported by OR.

7.) I am now in no-mans land. As OR do not report anything to me and the resolution of this is invisible outside of OR.

I appreciate the Engineers problems but pushing the users to accept issues by using Crosstalk/Attenuation as an excuse it not good.
In this case the real problem impacts more than just me so it is not trivial.
OR are their own worse enemy at times by working against their own Engineers  ???

Comments & Ideas are welcome.
(My Brain & Fingers hurt !!!)

FYI:
I have logged all this (slightly less wordy) with Plusnet and asked for feedback from OR via Plusnet.
 
All Typos etc are a 'No-Cost Extra' just for you.  ;D


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boost

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Re: Query re: OR Engineer visit & Zyxel modem
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2015, 05:50:24 AM »

Well done :)
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Ronski

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Re: Query re: OR Engineer visit & Zyxel modem
« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2015, 08:47:51 AM »

Well done,  my brother recently had problems with his phone and adsl broadband dropping out, using the phone was enough to affect it. Twice his master socket was changed and they pronounced it fixed,  even though his speed was still appalling,  he was told it would improve with time, I told him he'd just been fobbed off. Sure enough it just stopped working again.

Eventually two engineers arrived and spent the morning looking for the fault, they wanted to swap him to another line,  but the state of the network is so bad there aren't any spares and it's been like this for years. Eventually by luck they found a corroded joint in the junction box in the path opposite his house. His line is now stable, but only running at about 8mpbs instead of the 11 he had before.

This took around 3 months to get fixed, mainly because he needs to work, so didn't keep pushing. When he first moved in it took me months of constant battling and an email to the ceo's office to get his broadband up and running,  this is why I know how bad the lines are in his part of the town.

We had problems at work over Christmas,  the gas board sent a mole through some cables (1000 & 500 pair cables), that took bt over a month to reconnect around 64 customers. Again the engineer told me there wasn't enough good pairs to by pass the damaged ones.

The picture I see from what BT engineers have told me many times is they are not replacing old corroded cables, they just keep patching them, and this leads to constant problems.
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kitz

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Re: Query re: OR Engineer visit & Zyxel modem
« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2015, 12:42:54 PM »

>>> would not work at more than 71M when set to 80M.

Just to clarify & satisfy my curiousity.  When you say would not work, is this would not sync?
I'm recalling the problems you had the other week when you had difficulty getting both the Zyxel and HG612 to get a connection.
.. and further clarification was this sync or ppp.

>>> I explain that the ISP cannot impact the line speed in anyway as DLM is deciding what I get.

Good for you for being persistant when you knew you were right.  Most people wouldnt know this and at this point the visit would be terminated completely.

>>> The whole DSLAM needs to be looked at and fixed or replaced

Eke! I wonder if it is the whole dslam or faulty line card(s) as it isnt clear if the other port he tested on was on the same line card.

----

I agree with all of your points. Unfortunately you are piggy in the middle,  so it will be up to you to ensure Plusnet keep pushing this too. Please do keep us updated.
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AArdvark

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Re: Query re: OR Engineer visit & Zyxel modem
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2015, 02:23:47 PM »

Quote
>>> would not work at more than 71M when set to 80M.
I mean would not sync at more than 71M. Must not use vernacular !!!  ;D

Quote
Good for you for being persistant when you knew you were right.  Most people wouldnt know this and at this point the visit would be terminated completely.

This is what really annoyed me. I am fighting with the Engineer who should know more than me and who usually would say as much and win the arguement by default.

Quote
>>> The whole DSLAM needs to be looked at and fixed or replaced
I would have expected the port on another line card would be checked as he had moved the port I was on to start with (1st visit to cab).
He did say there were 45 other users on the cab and all would be affected. (Not clear in how I have written the comment)
(Read: 45 users in total on the cab. Hence the comment about Crosstalk not being huge as its not a lot of users )
That does seem to indicate more than 1 line card.
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kitz

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Re: Query re: OR Engineer visit & Zyxel modem
« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2015, 11:28:22 PM »

Thank you for the clarification re sync :)

Quote
He did say there were 45 other users on the cab and all would be affected. (Not clear in how I have written the comment)
(Read: 45 users in total on the cab. Hence the comment about Crosstalk not being huge as its not a lot of users )

Thanks again for further clarification.  I couldnt recall which type of Huawei cab you were on, as the MA5603 can hold up to 48 users per line card....  and I also had in the back of my mind the VCMM line card swap out issue as reported by BS.  Its far more common to hear of line card faults rather than total dslam faults.



I could almost see a case here whereby if you were on one of the cabs whose line cards that needed swapping out because the ELE-M1 was calculating the line length wrongly, it could be applying an incorrect PBO/PSD mask which in turn would reduce bitloading and will affect the maximum speed at which the line could get sync at.

Only flaw in this theory is that BT reported it was reducing the upstream sync speed & loss of sync...  but since ELE-M1 also controls Downstream PBO, it was a hmmmm moment. :hmm: 
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boost

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Re: Query re: OR Engineer visit & Zyxel modem
« Reply #27 on: April 06, 2015, 12:21:53 AM »


Only flaw in this theory is that BT reported it was reducing the upstream sync speed & loss of sync...  but since ELE-M1 also controls Downstream PBO, it was a hmmmm moment. :hmm:

Sounds more than plausible? The only other thing that's been mentioned is cab rot but you would imagine the synch speeds to be more erratic than nailed at a specific figure? :)
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AArdvark

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Re: Query re: OR Engineer visit & Zyxel modem
« Reply #28 on: April 06, 2015, 12:49:07 AM »

Cab rot would be unlikely, unless very unlucky, as the cab has been upgraded for Fibre only 8-9month old.
This of course would be par for the course with my luck  ;D

Maybe if they have to start playing with the cab it would be an ideal time to do the 'VCMM line card swap out'. Yay  ;D :lol:

I did not know that line cards could support 48 on one card.
This may mean 'just' a line card swap  ;D
All we need now is for OR to source a new card quickly.
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boost

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Re: Query re: OR Engineer visit & Zyxel modem
« Reply #29 on: April 06, 2015, 12:54:47 AM »

I wonder what the lead time is on a new card?
Hopefully it will go out as an emergency PEW and not involve several levels of hierarchy to reach a decision! :)
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