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Author Topic: [RESOLVED] Is this a HR fault?  (Read 6172 times)

big360

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[RESOLVED] Is this a HR fault?
« on: February 26, 2015, 01:33:54 PM »

Hi, I’m looking for some help in diagnosing what I believe may be a high resistance fault on my line. I’ve had this issue for the past couple of years but as its intermittent its been hard to get fixed. Calls to plusnet and my previous ISP TalkTalk have resulted in them sending out a phone engineer who has not found an issue on the line.

Symptoms

Router randomly disconnected multiple times during the day. This does not seem to be related to the weather but seems to happen most frequently during the morning. Some days it does not happen at all.

During times when the router is disconnecting I can hear noise on the phone line. Often picking up the phone to get a dial tone can be enough to disconnect the broadband.

Turning off the router reduces the amount of noise I can hear on the line while the filter is connected.

Removing the filter and with just the phone line plugged in I cannot hear any noise.

Oddly removing the filter and then connecting it again seems to fix the issue for a while. I initially thought this might be a filter issue but I’ve tried numerous different filters and have the same issue.

Troubleshooting

I now only have the closet socket to my External-NTE box connected.

I have tried replacing the cable from the External-NTE box to this socket.

I have changed the standard  phone socket for a NTE-5a socket with components removed so as not to have 2 master sockets.

I have tried mutiple filters, adsl cables,  phones, routers

I have connected ferrites to the router power cable / adsl cable and nearby electrical equipment.

I’ve turned off all nearby electrical equipment

I’ve tuned a MW radio to 612KHz and gone round my house and also walked what believe the route to cabinet. ( seems to be an area nearby my cabinet with alot of interference)



Current Equipment

Netgear DGND3700v2 router

Cordless telephone and a wired telephone for testing

High Speed 3m Adsl cable from Tandy

NTE5a master socket with components removed
This is directly opposite the External NTE box outside my house. The cable between them is max 1.5m long. No extension sockets connected.

XTE-2005 adslnation Master faceplate

adslnation XF-1e ADSL filters for testing on the test socket.


I’m around 2km from my exchange. As mentioned I have an external-NTE box outside my house and the phone cable goes underground to my cabinet about 1.2km away then underground again to the exchange.

Here is some recordings of the quite line test.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwleV0R5HxQfbm1hdzFIMFVYbFE/view?usp=sharing (Router Turned On - Filter in test socket)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwleV0R5HxQfNGFDTl9JelBHMDQ/view?usp=sharing (Router Turned Off - Filter in test socket)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwleV0R5HxQfUlZocE5kWGI5bHc/view?usp=sharing  (Test Socket - No Filter)



My stats are being monitored on MDWS. Username big360. I've attached some pictures of my wiring. Any advice appreciated on what might be causing this.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2015, 04:25:18 PM by big360 »
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burakkucat

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Re: Is this a HR fault?
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2015, 05:27:32 PM »

Having gone through the details of what you have tried, tested, replaced, etc and then listened to the QLT recordings, I agree that it could be either a HR or semi-conducting joint in your circuit.

Possibly a semi-conducting joint because of the voice-band/xDSL cross-modulation that appears to be present in the 26-02-15-withfilter-router-on.mp3 sound file.

Has the circuit ever been investigated by an Openreach technician (as distinct to someone from Qube, sent by TalkTalk, for example)? My reason for asking is that normally the components would be removed from the XNTE (crimping together the pairs of the service feed and the lead-in cables -- thus using the XNTE as just a weatherproof container) and a "complete" NTE5/A would be fitted internally, by Openreach, in cases such as this.

Ideally, a few days monitoring of the SNRM (at a minimum) would help us to clarify the situation.
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Black Sheep

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Re: Is this a HR fault?
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2015, 05:45:31 PM »

As the Cat has stated, at the external box the OR engineers would carefully remove that red cover by ripping it off  ;), and connecting the underground-fed pair of wires behind this cover directly to the pair of wires you see on the right-hand side, using gel-crimps.

I'm not suggesting you do so, but the wires connected on the right-hand side terminate by simply pushing the plastic plunger down on to them. Flimsy is the most understated word used when commenting on these as a 'Termination point'. If you pull on the two wires, there's a very high-percentage chance that they will just pull out of the plastic thingamajig ?? This is basically a 'HR' fault.

I'm not saying that this would be the end of the tale regarding your fault, but it's a good start.  :)

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big360

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Re: Is this a HR fault?
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2015, 06:22:25 PM »

Thanks for the replies guys. I've had visits from a few different engineers over the last couple of years. All them telephone engineers I think rather than broadband. 1 of them said he changed some equipment at the exchange end, another thought it was a loose connection on the original combination socket that came with the house ( pic attached ). He crimped on a bit of extra cable to give it more slack and claimed to have fixed the issue. He had not.

I'll get myself another NTE5a and some gel crimps to try bypassing the XNTE
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burakkucat

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Re: Is this a HR fault?
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2015, 07:42:51 PM »

I've only just noticed that you mentioned that your statistics are available on MDWS.

Yuk. Looking at the SNRM and the actual synchronisation graphs. (Image attached, below.)
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big360

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Re: Is this a HR fault?
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2015, 03:34:41 PM »

Ok, NTE5 replaced with new one. Gel Crimps bypassing the XNTE. I was hoping to remove the red cover in XNTE gracefully but had to rip it off in the end :)

Monitoring MDWS to see if its made a difference. Fingers crossed
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burakkucat

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Re: Is this a HR fault?
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2015, 03:47:05 PM »

I have MDWS set to display your SNRM & actual Synchronisation Speed and will check the graphs as & when I remember.  :)
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NewtronStar

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Re: Is this a HR fault?
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2015, 07:01:57 PM »

Monitoring MDWS to see if its made a difference. Fingers crossed

one of those saturday afternoon DIY jobs and my fingers are well crossed for you only time will tell.
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burakkucat

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Re: Is this a HR fault?
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2015, 04:58:48 PM »

Looking at your last 24 hours SNRM and actual Synchronisation Speed graphs it does appear that your circuit is now more stable.

That said, I don't like the ~9 dB DS SNRM. Perhaps a single power down of the modem in the 1100 - 1200 hours window, tomorrow, leaving it powered off for 30 minutes and then powering it back up may result in a more normal 6 dB SNRM for both DS & US.
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big360

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Re: Is this a HR fault?
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2015, 05:41:44 PM »

Thanks, I really hope it is stable now. As it was an intermittent fault I didn't want to jinx it and say its fixed too soon  :) The 9db profile along with interleaving was turned on a few days ago automatically when I had a load of disconnects in the same day. Will try and turn the router off at lunch time one day this week as you suggested.
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burakkucat

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Re: Is this a HR fault?
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2015, 06:05:27 PM »

There is another technique you could try (as a one-off event) . . .
  • Power off the modem, last thing at night.
  • Disconnect the cable linking the modem to the centralised filter.
  • Power down the router.
  • Next day, power up the modem.
  • Once the modem has initialised, reconnect it to the centralised filter.
  • Power up the router, thus initialising an new PPPoE connection.
I shall keep watching (via MDWS) for as long as I remember!  ;)
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big360

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Re: Is this a HR fault?
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2015, 06:07:48 PM »

Thanks, will give this a go tonight.
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big360

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Re: Is this a HR fault?
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2015, 09:16:39 AM »

Still on 9db profile with interleaving on after leaving my router off overnight. I'll leave it connected for a few days to check stability and hopefully DLM will put me back on 6db with no interleaving as I was before. Thanks a lot for the help on this! Will report back in few days.
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big360

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Re: Is this a HR fault?
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2015, 03:01:20 PM »

Got to love PlusNet's support. Put a request on their forums for a profile reset and it was done 4 minutes later.  MDWS still not loading for me though

EDIT  - MDWS working again for me
« Last Edit: March 02, 2015, 03:13:34 PM by big360 »
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big360

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Re: Is this a HR fault?
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2015, 04:24:54 PM »

Just wanted to say a big thank-you for helping me with this issue. My connection hasn't dropped once this week so bypassing the XNTE has fixed it by the looks of it!
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