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Author Topic: Interference problem  (Read 12157 times)

jizzerman

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Re: Interference problem
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2015, 04:12:54 PM »

What would make the DS D3 be 0 for long periods and jump around?

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burakkucat

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Re: Interference problem
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2015, 04:17:44 PM »

At a guess, I will say a physical defect in the circuit. Perhaps a defective joint, a joint that can open and close when subject to vibrational disturbances?

Nothing appears to "jump out"; there is no figurative "smoking gun" present.  :(
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jizzerman

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Re: Interference problem
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2015, 09:14:48 PM »

When OR came to activate my line originally, new build house, they said the line back to the cabinet wasn't installed long enough, and had to be extended.
Whatever it was only took a day to sort out, then all was fine. As did my neighbours.

I don't think my FTTC has ever been right, but it's only recently I have been checking.

Would that have any bearing on it?
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WWWombat

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Re: Interference problem
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2015, 02:32:00 AM »

The QLN graph is not something that I have ever seen before.  :o

Jizzerman's QLN graph does not display this kind of characteristic all the time - the one visible on MDWS right now is pretty normal.

However, we have seen a graph a bit like it before, though at a slightly reduced amplitude (mine oscillated by 5dB, while OP's was 10-20dB).

When my line resynced strangely just over a week ago (discussed on this thread), I got a fairly similar QLN graph too.
That can be seen on MDWS too - if you choose "Quiet Line", then "Historic", then "1st Mar". It was back to normal on the "2nd Mar" after I re-synced manually.

We pondered whether this happened at a time the DSLAM was re-booted (perhaps G.INP going live), so the QLN display looked odd while many modems were re-syncing.

Turned it off overnight. It re-connected back at normal 40/10. Then it REINed about 9.50 and dropped it again to 25/10.
Gave the same crazy QLN during that re-sync.

If it was that severe, perhaps it affected lots of other modems, and they all re-synced at a similar time. If the QLN is a side-effect of that kind of thing, that would imply it isn't just your line!

What would make the DS D3 be 0 for long periods and jump around?

Noise in the frequencies of D3 - enough to make the modem choose to not use any D3 tones during the sync.

I took a look at your SNRM/band graph on MDWS, which showed an event like this happening on the morning of the 7th March.
Then I compared your SNR/tone graph between "Mar 7th 02:00" and "Mar 7th 12:00" ...

... and Wow! Both D2 and D3 look horrible, with dips to 0dB every 12 tones for long stretches. The dips are 1-2 tones wide in D2, but 4-5 tones wide in D3. The part between tones 360 and 460 look affected too.

The matching bits/tone graph show that the modem has indeed chosen to not use a lot of tones (esp D3).

Yeuch. (Professional assessment, that ;) )

At a guess, I will say a physical defect in the circuit. Perhaps a defective joint, a joint that can open and close when subject to vibrational disturbances?

Nothing appears to "jump out"; there is no figurative "smoking gun" present.  :(

I think those dips every 12 tones is a distinct smoking gun - it seems very repetitive, and suspiciously close to 50Hz - and I'd show that to a REIN guy if he ever turned up again. (Grab copies, in case we lose MDWS!)

But I haven't a clue what is causing this. It makes me think of resonance, and fast fourier transforms, and many other things long-ago forgotten.
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roseway

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Re: Interference problem
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2015, 07:20:26 AM »

Quote
When my line resynced strangely just over a week ago (discussed on this thread), I got a fairly similar QLN graph too.
That can be seen on MDWS too - if you choose "Quiet Line", then "Historic", then "1st Mar". It was back to normal on the "2nd Mar" after I re-synced manually.

Exactly the same thing happened to me a few days ago. The connection dropped around 00:54 for no apparent reason, and stayed down for 6 minutes. When it came back up the QLN was all fuzzy. I guessed that the 6 minute downtime was the result of engineering work in the exchange.

Look at my historic QLN on MDWS for 6 March 00:00.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2015, 07:25:30 AM by roseway »
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  Eric

WWWombat

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Re: Interference problem
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2015, 04:21:14 PM »

The connection dropped around 00:54 for no apparent reason, and stayed down for 6 minutes.

I just checked my modem_stats.log file: the entries either side of the resync are for 27th Feb, 00:18 and 00:25. It seems like a similar 6 minute outage.
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roseway

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Re: Interference problem
« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2015, 04:57:03 PM »

It does begin to look like a pattern. Pure speculation, but could it be that the DSLAM configuration/software was being updated for G.INP support?
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  Eric

jizzerman

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Re: Interference problem
« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2015, 10:22:16 PM »

I'm pretty sure this has been a problem since my line went live with FTTC about June time last year.
Although I was not monitoring until I got a DSL-AC68U, and initially blamed that device's inherent instability. Rolled in the HG612 to find it doing the same.

I had OR here on the weekend, but unfortunately the problem was not apparent while he was here, 20 minute bursts randomly through the weekdays is hard to be here for.
I had plenty of history and data but there was no interest in seeing it as no REIN detected while he was here. I was hoping for a pair swap, or port swap just to rule them out.
The GEA test he did before he arrived showed REIN, but not by his kit when he was here, fair enough. I have attached the test PlusNet did Monday last week that got the engineer booked.

I think moving house to where the cabinet is on my door step is my next move :( Drastic, I know.
It went down today at 11.15, same time as it did Monday last week... but no guarantee it will re-occur this coming Monday.

Is it possible for me to pay for a lift and shift, even just a pair swap?

I think those dips every 12 tones is a distinct smoking gun - it seems very repetitive, and suspiciously close to 50Hz - and I'd show that to a REIN guy if he ever turned up again. (Grab copies, in case we lose MDWS!)

I'm going to try shutting my heating down tomorrow, as it's the only timed device that I have.
Then I'll try full dark later in the week.
Appreciate your analysis guys, it's positively driving me nuts, I'm on brink of just scheduling daily reboots and moving on  :baby:
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NewtronStar

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Re: Interference problem
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2015, 12:32:17 AM »

Jizzerman look at my errored seconds 1500+ per day and comimg up to a month this tells me your ISP has a low level of MTBE set on your line  :-\

But your US errored seconds needs looking into as they are much higher than the DS
« Last Edit: March 10, 2015, 12:42:37 AM by NewtronStar »
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jizzerman

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Re: Interference problem
« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2015, 11:25:50 AM »

I had a DLM reset on Saturday, DS error seconds went up massively.

DLM put low level interleaving back on early Sunday morning.

DS ES recovered, no interleaving on US, it's always been happy with level of error seconds upstream, must be just in their amber level perhaps.

Left my heating off, still had a couple of heavy SNRM drops this morning, looks like sync just held out.
Pretty sure interference is external. Is there a way one of the monitoring tools could email me when the DS SNRM drops below 5dB?
I have an analogue radio to hand to go ghost hunting :)
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roseway

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Re: Interference problem
« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2015, 11:42:20 AM »

Quote
Is there a way one of the monitoring tools could email me when the DS SNRM drops below 5dB?

Yes, DSLstats can do this. Look at Configuration --> Alerts.
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  Eric

jizzerman

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Re: Interference problem
« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2015, 02:24:20 PM »

I'll take a look tonight at getting that up and running, as it just dropped sync again.

If I can catch it in the act and record it maybe OR will have some useful evidence to get some traction with.
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jizzerman

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Re: Interference problem
« Reply #27 on: March 18, 2015, 05:44:59 PM »

UPDATE:
Plusnet escalated my ticket last week and arranged an engineer for today.
Then G.INP was turned on early Sunday morning. Great improvement on error rate and reduced my latency to bbc.co.uk from 17 to 10ms, wikid.

I hoped it would clear my REINy days, but no, Monday and Tuesday re-syncs both days with to a lower sync speed and a dirty QLN graph.
Rebooted both days during clean time to get the speed back.

OR engineer came today, my 5th visit, he was a great guy. Took the time to listed to what's been happening so far and what had been tried.
Decided to run a new pair from the cabinet to my door!

Stats showed a vast improvement to the interference on my QLN immediately.
He also said the AC balance had gone from 61 to 75, which apparently should improve it's resistance to REIN.

I asked for a DLM reset as a final thought, thinking it would put my line on a nice clean slate, but it actually removed G.INP and applied a deeper level of oldsk00l interleaving  :-\

Hopefully the low error rate will settle itself back down in a week or so?
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NewtronStar

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Re: Interference problem
« Reply #28 on: March 18, 2015, 07:15:56 PM »

I asked for a DLM reset as a final thought, thinking it would put my line on a nice clean slate, but it actually removed G.INP and applied a deeper level of oldsk00l interleaving  :-\

Hopefully the low error rate will settle itself back down in a week or so?

That's interesting a line reset takes you off G.INP i wonder how long it will take your line to go back to G.INP  :-\
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loonylion

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Re: Interference problem
« Reply #29 on: March 18, 2015, 07:18:58 PM »

That's interesting a line reset takes you off G.INP i wonder how long it will take your line to go back to G.INP  :-\

makes sense since a DLM reset is the cure to outdated ECI modems not liking G.INP,
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