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[captainkirk]

Hi all,

We had FTTC connected in November, we must have had ten engineers out between then and now - they say that they can see we have a problem from the router stats (they thinks its rain related but nothing shows up on their equipment when they came - usually when its dry!)

Below is the graph of the snr and the line attenuation when its raining - we have another engineer coming out tomorrow but I'm not holding my breath that they will find anything - when its wet the broadband cuts out multiple times - there is a slight hiss on the phone as well but nothing major.   Just wondered if anyone had any thoughts on the results below, is there anything I can say to the engineer to get it sorted out - we used to have problems with the ADSL line too but fortunately the Netgear modem used to hold on more often than not -  I think that fibre is probably more sensitive but we really would like to get it fixed once and for all.  The engineers each write off the job (despite knowing that there is a problem) so we seem to start at the beginning every time which doesn't help - I've finally made enough fuss on the BT forum that one of their 'care' team is involved but its getting to the point where they don't seem to know what to do!   I was told that BT had carried out a lift and shift at the cabinet on Wednesday but there's no report on the router of it having been out for more than a minute - they wouldn't let the engineer try that when he came last Tuesday so I don't know whether I believe them or not!

Any help would be very much appreciated (I've attached the graphs in a file)

1. Product name: BT Home Hub
2. Serial number: +068343+NQ43007883
3. Firmware version: Software version 4.7.5.1.83.8.204 (Type A) Last updated 15/01/15
4. Board version: BT Hub 5A
5. DSL uptime: 0 days, 00:18:45
6. Data rate: 2522 / 15834
7. Maximum data rate: 2514 / 18703
8. Noise margin: 5.5 / 6.4
9. Line attenuation: 39.7 / 31.4
10. Signal attenuation: 39.4 / 26.0


1. Product name: BT Home Hub
2. Serial number: +068343+NQ43007883
3. Firmware version: Software version 4.7.5.1.83.8.204 (Type A) Last updated 15/01/15
4. Board version: BT Hub 5A
5. DSL uptime: 0 days, 00:01:30
6. Data rate: 1217 / 18285
7. Maximum data rate: 1217 / 21107
8. Noise margin: 5.9 / 6.0
9. Line attenuation: 13.5 / 31.3
10. Signal attenuation: 13.5 / 25.9

1. Product name: BT Home Hub
2. Serial number: +068343+NQ43007883
3. Firmware version: Software version 4.7.5.1.83.8.204 (Type A) Last updated 15/01/15
4. Board version: BT Hub 5A
5. DSL uptime: 0 days, 01:06:29
6. Data rate: 1037 / 14378
7. Maximum data rate: 1052 / 17863
8. Noise margin: 6.4 / 7.4
9. Line attenuation: 39.7 / 31.3
10. Signal attenuation: 13.5 / 25.9

Product name:BT Home Hub
2. Serial number:+068343+NQ43007883
3. Firmware version:Software version 4.7.5.1.83.8.204 (Type A) Last updated 15/01/15
4. Board version:BT Hub 5A
5. DSL uptime:0 days, 05:16:17
6. Data rate:1037 / 14378
7. Maximum data rate:1052 / 18465
8. Noise margin:6.5 / 8.1
9. Line attenuation:39.7 / 31.3
10. Signal attenuation:13.5 / 25.9

[Black Sheep]

"The engineers each write off the job (despite knowing that there is a problem)"

Can you expand on this comment please ??

[captainkirk]

Yes, when the engineers come out I show them the router stats to which they say that it is obvious there is a fault somewhere but when the line checks are done there is nothing showing - they keep saying its a question of catching it when its raining and faulty - when the weather dries the fault goes pretty quickly.  The job doesn't get left open, it then appears on the BT fault screen as fault cleared - its been like going around in ever decreasing circles!!  I flagged an engineer down the other day when it was wet and the stats were going mad but he said he couldn't check as it wasn't on his list (I do understand this but I thought it wouldn't hurt to try!).  Anyway, I was explaining the problem to him and he said that it sounded very much like a high resistance fault and I would just have to keep reporting it and reporting until it gets found.  If he is right then it could be years before we get it fixed

[Black Sheep]

It does indeed sound like a HR fault.

For info, it just is not feasible to start flagging down engineers and expect them to drop what they're doing to visit your premises. Their time will already be 'booked' by ISP's to visit other EU's (Customers) who are also experiencing problems. Imagine if what you did was classed by our management acceptable behaviour ...... times that by 20,000 engineers and we'd be in chaos.

As I say, it does sound like you have a HR, but usually the ingress of water temporarily clears this kind of fault ? It's when the dry weather comes that HR's are easily identified.

Try using the landline  (dial 17070) and use the 'Quiet Line Test' to determine exactly the level of noise and to see if the router drops synch, this is a common occurrence with HR faults.

[captainkirk]

Thanks Black Sheep - other than a small hiss in the rain there's nothing much distinguishable on the 17070 line test although when its been very wet for days any incoming or outgoing calls will disconnect the broadband.

The flagging down of the engineer wasn't as bad as it sounded - we live in a small village and he was just creeping around the corner in his van - I didn't jump out at him, just waved     Please don't think I was rude to him and demanded he check, I just politely enquired and fully understood what he (and you) was saying - if he was on his way to me by appointment then I wouldn't expect some mad woman to accost him either 

Assuming that it may not get fixed anytime soon would you think that a different modem/router to the HH5 might hold on better on the line?

[Black Sheep]

Ha ha ..... thanks for the clarification. It's a quest of mine, to ensure decent OR engineers don't get the bad press that certain conspiracy theorists would have you believe.
Yes, there are bad apples in every profession, and with our recent recruitment drive and fast-tracking of anyone who can hold a screwdriver, I fully understand certain situations being frustrating for EU's .......... but we're not all like that and I'm here to represent those who do give a poo. 

I can't answer your question regarding different routers 'Holding synch' better than the HH5. TBH, you shouldn't have to even be thinking this way. If you have a fault ...... you have a fault. Yes, it may take time to track down but keep on at your ISP for engineering visits and eventually the fault will get to a point where it is significant enough for us to 'see' with our meters, or, an 'e-Viper' case (Complaint) will probably be raised which means the local manager gets involved and has to show a result.

What I'm trying to say is, persevere and it will eventually get resolved. It won't take "Years!, but it may take months. 
 

[captainkirk]

Thank you so much Black Sheep for your help, it really is appreciated.  I have to say that all the engineers without exception have all been very good and very thorough - its the writing off of the fault that gets frustrating but again, I suppose its part of the 'system' they have to follow.    I've booked the engineer for tomorrow based on the weather forecast which is supposed to see rain all tomorrow morning - last time I did that it was full sunshine all day   

I'll let you know how we get on - thanks again

[NewtronStar]

As I say, it does sound like you have a HR, but usually the ingress of water temporarily clears this kind of fault ? It's when the dry weather comes that HR's are easily identified.
faults.

The dry weather comes soon after late spring and by that time the lines attenuation will increase due to expansion of the cables by rising temperatures so the summer time is the best time for the OR engineer to find an locate a possible HR fault.

[captainkirk]

Thanks, I'm learning a lot - I hope we haven't got to wait until summer though - hubby isn't half complaining about his football disappearing ten times during a match!  I don't think I could put up with the moaning for that long 

[NewtronStar]

Thanks, I'm learning a lot - I hope we haven't got to wait until summer though - hubby isn't half complaining about his football disappearing ten times during a match!  I don't think I could put up with the moaning for that long 

I take it hubby is obilivous to the laws of physics that would account for 91% of end-users who use broadband in the uk, it's only when a fault occurs then it may spark an interest into the workings of broadband or may not 

[captainkirk]

Hubby is more than oblivious - as long as the football works he's happy

On a more serious note, the expected engineer didn't turn up today which is not good - I know jobs sometimes take longer but a phone call to say they're not coming would be something!

[Black Sheep]

It sounds like your job didn't get issued to the engineers, CK ?? We do get occasions where by there's too many jobs and not enough engineers on the park. 

[captainkirk]

I didn't realise that Black Sheep, that must cause you several problems as you go on visits!  I'm fairly laid back about these things as other half was the pest control person for the local authority so faced a lot of issues where some jobs took twenty minutes but others could take 2 or 3 hours - you just never know until you get there.  I think that a lot of these big corporations nowadays have really bad communications issues - all it takes is for someone in the office to pick up the jobs that haven't been allocated and let someone know - if people have taken time off work because they are told an engineer is 'booked' then you can understand why they get very frustrated. 

My daughter has just finished her degree and is applying for full time jobs - 90% of the time she doesn't even receive a reply to her application - in my day (when reply letters were individually typed!) everyone received a reply whether they had an interview or not!   Now you've got me started on a rant - I do think standards are slipping - I had a letter from my bank which contained the phrase 'I shalln't' - says it all really!

I'm at home tomorrow so if the job has been pushed over then that's ok - if not, I guess I will await the BT care phone call on Wednesday and he will rebook an engineer - reading yours and NewtronStar's  posts it looks as if it might be a problem that will be best addressed in the better weather so perhaps the change of modem would be prudent in the meantime. 

I do appreciate all the help, thanks - Tracey

[Black Sheep]

It's no trouble. 

I fully understand the frustrations of taking time off work and it turning out to be a 'No-show'. I've had it happen myself with various deliveries and it leaves you seething.
I'm not justifying the action, merely pointing out that as with your husbands old job, it doesn't take much to alter our workstacks course from on-target to over-loaded.

I still blame the implementation of the automated work-manager allocation system over two decades ago. It assumes that 'x' amount of jobs will take 'x' amount of time to achieve, based on historic data. So it then allocates job tours to engineers based on this data, and the engineers rostered working hours,

All it takes is for one or two of these jobs to over-run and the manual job 'Controllers' then have to try and juggle things around to try and arrange for someone else to take ownership of the other failing tasks ?? When you've got circa 20,000 engineers to manage, it must be daunting at times. Add engineers ringing in sick, dodgy two/three man assisted areas (not factored in on the WM machine), stores replenishment etc etc etc ...... never mind the weather conditions .........and it can go awry quite quickly !!

I'm painting worse-case scenario's as I would say most days, most appointments are met ...... at least on my patch anyway.

I fully agree with how todays standards have changed for the worse. Even with all the help such as spell-checkers, they get things wrong !!!

Back to your task, it may still be in 'The pot' as we call it, and may get picked up tomorrow ?? If so, and you're out for whatever reason then a 'No Access' card will be left requesting you make a new appointment. We work Saturdays as part of our rostered working week, and I would maybe push for this if it suits better ?? The management have a drive on at the moment to get all engineers working Saturdays due to the amount of requests by ISP's. Currently, the latest wave of recruits do not do any.

 

[captainkirk]

There's someone here all day tomorrow - one of those parcel deliveries you mentioned is arriving - anywhere between 7am and 7pm!   Goodness knows what is going to happen to us if the tech systems go down one of these days, we'll all be lost