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Author Topic: FTTC Lift and Shift  (Read 12991 times)

Mark07

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FTTC Lift and Shift
« on: January 22, 2015, 12:40:01 PM »

Hey guys,

Just wondering what a lift and shift would entail on fibre, I believe on ADSL it was changing pairs at the DP and changing pairs / port at the exchange?

Last visit I had the OR engineer said if what he had done hadn't fixed the problem (it hasn't) then we'd need a lift and shift.

What would this involve? Is it likely to improve the errors / noise / sync on my line?

Thanks in advance  :)
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KIAB

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Re: FTTC Lift and Shift
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2015, 03:34:29 PM »

Your service has to be moved to another port/card on the DSLAM,  had a couple of them done here in the past, took the engineer about 15 mins to do required jumpering.
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Mark07

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Re: FTTC Lift and Shift
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2015, 04:58:50 PM »

Thanks for the reply, I honestly think it is down to the aluminium my d-side is made up of, lose about 20meg from the joint at the end of the street to my DP so I'm not confident a lift and shift will do much good but we'll let them do it and see what happens  ;D
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Black Sheep

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Re: FTTC Lift and Shift
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2015, 05:03:23 PM »

Hey guys,

Just wondering what a lift and shift would entail on fibre, I believe on ADSL it was changing pairs at the DP and changing pairs / port at the exchange?

Last visit I had the OR engineer said if what he had done hadn't fixed the problem (it hasn't) then we'd need a lift and shift.

What would this involve? Is it likely to improve the errors / noise / sync on my line?

Thanks in advance  :)

As KIAB states ...... a 'L&S' is simply an allocation of a new port, be that ADS: (Copper Broadband), or VDSL (Fibre to The Cab Broadband).

With ADSL, the broadband equipment is sited in the Telephone Exchange and the actual port allocation takes minutes to achieve once the ISP the engineer is dealing with, is satisfied that one is required.
The subsequent re-wiring to this new port depends on the size of the Main Distribution Frame (MDF) in the Exchange, and where the new port is allocated on this MDF. Some large  Exchanges have MDF's on different floors, and Wigan actually has MDF's split over 2 different buildings approx. 300mtrs apart. This entails having to utilise what we call 'Ties' (link cables) to transfer the PSTN/DSL signals about. A royal pain in the whatsit if you're in an Exchange you've never visited before, trying to work out how it's 'mapped' is incredibly hard sometimes !!

With VDSL, the broadband equipment is sited in the street furniture by the roadside (Green Cabinets). Getting a 'L&S' on these is more time-consuming in terms of the phone call, but the rewiring in the Green Cabinet is very simple once the new port has been allocated.
It used to take literally hours to achieve a 'L&S' in the early days of FTTC. But now it is an average of roughly 30mins to allocate, once the lengthy phone call has been concluded. It all depends on the robotic queuing systems and the amount of 'L&S' taking place nationwide at that particular time ??

Will it improve noise, synch rate etc ???? Obviously, only if the original port was proven faulty ???

HTH.  :)
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Black Sheep

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Re: FTTC Lift and Shift
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2015, 05:06:15 PM »

Just seen your post you put up whilst I was composing mine.

Aluminium is DSL's worst enemy. Hate the stuff.  :-X
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Mark07

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Re: FTTC Lift and Shift
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2015, 05:30:44 PM »

Thanks for the detailed reply BS, interesting to know how it works  ;D

Thing is we had issues even with ADSL, and the issues weren't fixed when we moved to VDSL (they just got slightly better) which leads me to believe it's noise because of the aluminium cable in the street, and I can only see it being resolved if openreach decide to replace it with copper and I'm not sure if I can ever convince them to do that  :(
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loonylion

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Re: FTTC Lift and Shift
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2015, 06:36:02 PM »

I can only see it being resolved if openreach decide to replace it with copper and I'm not sure if I can ever convince them to do that  :(

You can. How big is your wallet? (it will need to be very big, and have a lot of non-sequentially numbered large denomination banknotes in it).
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Mark07

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Re: FTTC Lift and Shift
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2015, 06:42:16 PM »

Haha other than that!
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KIAB

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Re: FTTC Lift and Shift
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2015, 08:34:45 PM »

I can only see it being resolved if openreach decide to replace it with copper and I'm not sure if I can ever convince them to do that  :(

You can. How big is your wallet? (it will need to be very big, and have a lot of non-sequentially numbered large denomination banknotes in it).

Well, I had a problem with alumium cable here, a lot of complaining to Openreach got me nowhere.
So, a strong letter was sent to Sir Michael Rake, Chairman at BT Group plc, BT Centre, 81 Newgate Street, London EC1A 7AJ, Some weeks later the cable was replaced, plus they laid a new line from the pole to the house.
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Chrysalis

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Re: FTTC Lift and Shift
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2015, 10:18:32 PM »

Regarding ali I am not sure if always has a big impact.

The engineer who swapped my pair told me he was getting rubbish speeds close to the cab which was only barely above what was at my house.
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Black Sheep

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Re: FTTC Lift and Shift
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2015, 10:21:48 PM »

I feel I need to add my own professional view at this point.

Believe me when I say, we engineers struggle to get 30mtrs of cable replaced through our planning department. Even when we prove conclusively the entire length is b0llocksed, they still want us to try and half the distance if we can.

So, do not think that by writing a letter to Mr Rake as suggested, you will get any cable renewed. You will most likely get an expedited engineering visit, at the very most. We can't simply have EU's dictating what needs to be done in our network, that would be ludicrous on any business level. 
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renluop

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Re: FTTC Lift and Shift
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2015, 11:23:38 PM »

I feel I need to add my own professional view at this point.

Believe me when I say, we engineers struggle to get 30mtrs of cable replaced through our planning department. Even when we prove conclusively the entire length is b0llocksed, they still want us to try and half the distance if we can.

So, do not think that by writing a letter to Mr Rake as suggested, you will get any cable renewed. You will most likely get an expedited engineering visit, at the very most. We can't simply have EU's dictating what needs to be done in our network, that would be ludicrous on any business level.
That is very much like what I heard from a friend. Only half of his ali was allowed to be replaced. BS, would you say that often the bean counters save a penny to spend £££s later?
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Black Sheep

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Re: FTTC Lift and Shift
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2015, 07:38:08 AM »

Ha ha ....... that particular adage was designed for BT, Ren.  ;) ;D

Seriously though, it's just how it is in big business. I appreciate we have an incredibly clever membership here on Kitz, but it is difficult at times to put across just how large the company is and there has to be budgets put in place with every department.

Of course, it frustrates the hell out of us all, engineers and EU's alike. It does seem like they want us to spin gold out of straw sometimes ??. But, I do see the bigger picture.
The bean-counters/planners have to allocate the dosh to where it would have the greatest impact. For example there's a big drive on FVR (Fault Volume Reduction), whereby the FVR team will use various systems to decide which cable node has the most 'Pair Changes' or 'Repeat Reports' etc and then work out which section of cable needs replacing to put and end to the continual churn of faults.
Believe me, it works.

So, like Jack Bauer (Counter Terrorist officer) making a decision in '24' ............. sometimes the odd EU has to suffer for the greater good.  ;) ;D ;D
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Mark07

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Re: FTTC Lift and Shift
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2015, 09:43:11 AM »

Pretty much what the engineer who came out said, he said if it was up to him he'd love to replace all alim he finds as it'd stop a lot of call outs for noise etc but openreach won't do it.

So I've kind of made my peace with that now anyway. Thanks again for the explaination BS  ;D
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Black Sheep

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Re: FTTC Lift and Shift
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2015, 09:44:15 AM »

You're very welcome, bud.  :)
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