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Author Topic: BT nationwide rolling out G.INP/PhyR and changes to DLM.  (Read 86206 times)

tbailey2

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Re: BT nationwide rolling out G.INP/PhyR and changes to DLM.
« Reply #75 on: January 15, 2015, 10:46:13 AM »

If anyone wants to see a sudden rise in SNRM/Attainable try this  :o

I thought at first that G.INP/PhyR had come to my rescue and got back nearly all my sync losses in the year since connection  :D

However, more mundane  :no:

It was a two-hour power loss in the area which left the line between me and the cab (~800m) apparently with no other active users (I'm on a UPS ) and gave a ~10db increase in SNRM. Odd maybe though that when the power came back the SNRM immediately returned to the previous level (or a bit below) with no stepping as other users came back on line. The cab has some 600 POTS lines but don't know the take up on the Fibre twin (SDHRSTP, Cab 4).

The graphs were obtained by using click-to-zoom in MDWS- they re-centre on where you click each time (for those that support it).
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Ixel

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Re: BT nationwide rolling out G.INP/PhyR and changes to DLM.
« Reply #76 on: January 15, 2015, 10:48:47 AM »

Ha, I should remove the link to my TQM, it's inactive at the moment - only really use it when there's a possible problem that I need to monitor. The ping on my connection will fluctuate a bit as I'm tweaking around with my INP and delay settings (downstream only sadly, can't control upstream :().
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marjohn56

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Re: BT nationwide rolling out G.INP/PhyR and changes to DLM.
« Reply #77 on: January 15, 2015, 10:51:55 AM »

If anyone wants to see a sudden rise in SNRM/Attainable try this  :o

I thought at first that G.INP/PhyR had come to my rescue and got back nearly all my sync losses in the year since connection  :D

However, more mundane  :no:
...

Interesting! Time to go out with the wire cutters in the small hours. :)

Roll on FTTrN.
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OPNsense 18.* - Billion Bridge - Qotom Q355G4 - ISP - ZEN U.K.

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adslmax

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Re: BT nationwide rolling out G.INP/PhyR and changes to DLM.
« Reply #78 on: January 15, 2015, 11:23:33 AM »

I thought on FTTC u cannot tweak anything like noise margin increasing! As Openreach have disabled it at the cabinet? You can tweak noise margin on the ADSL2+ on BTw.
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marjohn56

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Re: BT nationwide rolling out G.INP/PhyR and changes to DLM.
« Reply #79 on: January 15, 2015, 11:28:53 AM »

Depends on your VDSL router. Some you can, some you think you can but it does nothing.

Certainly works on the Draytek 2860 and the Asus DSL-AC68.
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OPNsense 18.* - Billion Bridge - Qotom Q355G4 - ISP - ZEN U.K.

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marjohn56

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Re: BT nationwide rolling out G.INP/PhyR and changes to DLM.
« Reply #80 on: January 15, 2015, 11:33:39 AM »

There's a thought....

With the advent of G.Inp, could the SNR level be taken down substantially?

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OPNsense 18.* - Billion Bridge - Qotom Q355G4 - ISP - ZEN U.K.

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Ixel

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Re: BT nationwide rolling out G.INP/PhyR and changes to DLM.
« Reply #81 on: January 15, 2015, 12:19:27 PM »

Yeah. On the ASUS DSL-AC68U for example, via a tool called TC, I can actually override the maximum downstream sync rate, INP and delay configuration (even beyond the maximum sync rate set on the DSLAM). So for example, if the DSLAM only permits me a maximum downstream sync rate of 49,000Kbps and I pay for up to 80,000Kbps, I can instruct the ASUS to ignore the PMS from the DSLAM (for the downstream that is) and specify a maximum downstream sync rate of 80,000Kbps (or higher, though I wouldn't) - and this works.

As for SNRM, I don't think G.INP effects that. If anything it allows you to get a higher SNRM because it's not constantly running the overheads imposed by traditional interleaving and INP.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2015, 12:23:02 PM by Ixel »
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marjohn56

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Re: BT nationwide rolling out G.INP/PhyR and changes to DLM.
« Reply #82 on: January 15, 2015, 01:56:17 PM »

Yeah. On the ASUS DSL-AC68U for example, via a tool called TC, I can actually override the maximum downstream sync rate, INP and delay configuration (even beyond the maximum sync rate set on the DSLAM). So for example, if the DSLAM only permits me a maximum downstream sync rate of 49,000Kbps and I pay for up to 80,000Kbps, I can instruct the ASUS to ignore the PMS from the DSLAM (for the downstream that is) and specify a maximum downstream sync rate of 80,000Kbps (or higher, though I wouldn't) - and this works.

As for SNRM, I don't think G.INP effects that. If anything it allows you to get a higher SNRM because it's not constantly running the overheads imposed by traditional interleaving and INP.

Maybe time for me to get hold of an Asus again, as I think you have mamaged to sort out what the issues are/were. I was thinking of dropping my SNR  to 3db to see what happens. I've already done one reset today, so I'll leave that until tomorrow.
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OPNsense 18.* - Billion Bridge - Qotom Q355G4 - ISP - ZEN U.K.

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Chrysalis

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Re: BT nationwide rolling out G.INP/PhyR and changes to DLM.
« Reply #83 on: January 16, 2015, 01:38:28 PM »

I apologise, as said by the other poster, I was wrong on the 8800nl default settings,

PhyR is enabled on my DS and disabled on my US.

I see no reference to vectoring support on the billion tho, I noticed as the billion 8800AXL product page doesnt mention vectoring support either.

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marjohn56

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Re: BT nationwide rolling out G.INP/PhyR and changes to DLM.
« Reply #84 on: January 16, 2015, 02:04:50 PM »

There's a thought....

With the advent of G.Inp, could the SNR level be taken down substantially?

Indeed it did work. I dropped the SNR to 5db and gained about 2.6Mbbs... Only FECS, no other errors at all after 23 hours.

Maybe I'll try 4db :)
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guest

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Re: BT nationwide rolling out G.INP/PhyR and changes to DLM.
« Reply #85 on: January 23, 2015, 02:18:29 PM »

There's a thought....

With the advent of G.Inp, could the SNR level be taken down substantially?

Yes. Sky were pretty aggressive in terms of revamping DLM behaviour when they rolled out g.INP on their ADSL2+ service & a lot of users are now on a 3dB profile. Most of those users (as of last summer anyway, don't know now as they finally took the hint & removed me from the beta group) had >40% lower erroring than they had on a 7dB profile with interleaving.

g.INP is the dogs wotsits on ADSL2+ & is a pre-requisite for vectoring (if BT ever get their act together on that).
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WWWombat

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Re: BT nationwide rolling out G.INP/PhyR and changes to DLM.
« Reply #86 on: January 25, 2015, 12:29:37 AM »

With the advent of G.Inp, could the SNR level be taken down substantially?
Yes ...
Wouldn't it depend whether the default setting had any G.INP involvement?

If it did not, would you really want to drop your SNR to trigger DLM to turn on G.INP on your line?
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WWWombat

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Re: BT nationwide rolling out G.INP/PhyR and changes to DLM.
« Reply #87 on: January 25, 2015, 12:35:02 AM »

If anyone wants to see a sudden rise in SNRM/Attainable try this  :o

...

It was a two-hour power loss in the area which left the line between me and the cab (~800m) apparently with no other active users (I'm on a UPS )

I believe I have seen a similar power-loss event, but my modem wasn't on a UPS so it re-synced. But the QLN data that the modem held onto after the resync showed a suspicious change in the noise environment, suggesting that none of the neighbouring modems were synced at the time...
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: BT nationwide rolling out G.INP/PhyR and changes to DLM.
« Reply #88 on: January 25, 2015, 08:22:19 AM »

I see similar events whenever we have a power cut (not on a UPS).

We know the Huawei HG612 syncs very quickly (usually less than 20 seconds for an 'on the fly' resync).

I assume that other non-HG612 VDSL2 modems & ADSL modem/routers that are causing the crosstalk issues in my area obtain sync a little slower.

Prior to seeing the effects of crosstalk, Attainable DS rate for my connection was up to 35 Mbps, with sync speeds (Interleaved) at around 30 Mbps.

Nowadays, Attainable is usually not much more than 20 Mbps (fastpath), with sync speed pretty close to Attainable.


See the attached examples showing increased Attainable & sync speeds.
As they were both lower than my pre-crosstalk days, I assume some connections had also synced quite quickly (maybe other HG612 VDSL2 connections).

My connection held on for a few days with very low SNRM before resyncing at the usual speeds (the other non-HG612 modems must have synced shortly after mine).

Similar effects are seen following the every occasional power cuts we experience where I live.



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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: BT nationwide rolling out G.INP/PhyR and changes to DLM.
« Reply #89 on: January 25, 2015, 08:26:38 AM »

Just for reference, I have attached the FULL__Monty montage for that period to show all the various error counts etc.

We can see that my connection is on fastpath these days, but some DS FECs can be seen, indicating that PhyR is now active on my connection.



Edit:

Note the expected increase in some error counts & 'interesting' decrease/lack of some during that period.
It appears that all DS RS was OFF during the period.


« Last Edit: January 25, 2015, 08:35:39 AM by Bald_Eagle1 »
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