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Author Topic: Tiscali. Can it get any worse?  (Read 7771 times)

Clenched Buttocks

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Tiscali. Can it get any worse?
« on: February 07, 2008, 05:15:20 PM »

Hi there

This is my first post to this very useful site and no doubt will cover several issues with which you will already be familiar and, dare I say it, sick to the back teeth. It concerns the abysmal service currently provided by Tiscali to my parents and requires some much appreciated advice as to what we can do to extricate ourselves from this position.

In fairness to Tiscali, I took out a 512kbps (unlimited) contract with them nearly 4 years ago and this has proved to be pretty much trouble-free. At the time I was not especially ADSL-savvy (not that I necessarily am now), and simply used Tiscali as their prices seemed very competitive. The connection speed was raised to 1mbps some months back and has more recently been upped to around 4mbps (though the Tiscali graphic does show this as 7 – 7.5mbps). Both of these upgrades came from Tiscali unrequested from myself and without any increase in the £14.99 monthly fee. As a user who does very little downloading this is not a big issue, in fact the difference between the original 512kbps and the current 4mbps is not especially noticeable. I understand that connection speeds are influenced by distance to the exchange and I am only about 300 metres away so I guess that providing a reasonable connection is not unduly difficult?

To move on, my folks purchased a laptop (their first computer) just prior to last Christmas (2006). I suggested that they use Tiscali as their ISP, not so much because I was unaware of their well documented delivery issues, but more because there is very little choice in this part of East Anglia. The alternatives would have been BT (already providing the telephone service), Talk Talk and Orange – all outfits with unenviable reputations. Though the package they chose was the 1mbps, the existing cabling in this area only allowed for 512kbps. The true speed was actually substantially less than 512k, more like 256, or indeed, 128kbps. This, though, was not impossible to work with given their required usage was only for occasional internet browsing. I should add here that they are about 2.75km from their exchange.

So the folks were connected via this package for the year (Dec ’06 – Dec ’07). During last December they received a telephone call from Tiscali offering them the chance to have their telephone connection provided as well as the broadband all for the same monthly rental £14.99. Calls would be charged for on top of this though there is no intended call charge for weekend use. This of course would eliminate the cost of the quarterly line rental. So on the face of it not a bad deal. They were told that there would be a ten day ‘bedding-in’ period, resulting in a few connection inconsistencies etc. This package is referred to as the Tiscali Max Unlimited. Clearly the timing of the offer refected that the existing contract was due to expire. 

The date of the upgrade commenced on the 11th January 2008. The telephone seemed to work fine but broadband connection was very difficult. It often took up to 1 hour before the two green modem lights would stop blinking. Surprisingly, sometimes this condition could be achieved by lifting the telephone receiver to make a call – very odd. Given that we had been told to expect a reduced service for ten days this performance did not seem unacceptable to begin with. The problem was that by the 19th January it was totally impossible to make a connection to broadband. This abysmal situation has continued to date.

I should mention that on the 11th January a Tiscali Talk Welcome pack was received. This consisted of a Netgear DG834G (54 mbps adsl2+) modem router and a couple of filters. We have never tried to connect this item as my understanding is that a wireless router will not run properly at the connection speeds previously available. So to some extent it was a red herring. Am I correct in this assumption?   
 
Repeated calls to the customer services are totally futile. Getting through 0871 333 22 11 are to India generally results in a polite, but ineffective individual confirming that he has no authority to make any changes to the current situation. Given that the current situation is one of on-going disconnection such a response seems incredible. On the other hand contact with the UK counterparts usually results in a recommendation that we should try to determine whether the filters are up to standard. This is fine, but why should any of the equipment that has been in use for the previous year now fail to function? Additionally, suggestions about hooking-up via the Netgear router are made but this does not seem to be based on any discernible technical proficiency, more a suck-it-and-see test.  Furthermore, a good deal of ‘blame’ is shipped BT’s way, as it is they that handle some part of the switchover. So overall contact with Tiscali results in becoming entangled in a futile communications loop. In the light of this a stiff email contact was sent a week ago but has resulted in no reply as yet.

Also my folks have never received any form of contract regarding this upgrade other than two very non-specific emails. Interestingly. because I had originally specified that all email contact from Tiscali be duplicated to my hotmail account I was able to read the contents of one of these messages. Amazingly the same message could not be viewed via my parents Tiscali email.   

Frankly, I am unsure what to do at this stage. Is it best to just demand the MAC codes and withdraw from Tiscali altogether? I could do this in addition re my own contract in order to add a bit of leverage to the issue. Is it worth contacting OFFCOM? I have heard that they are a pretty toothless body who are unlikely to represent much of an obstacle for the ISP. Where do we stand regarding paying the bill? This is currently to be paid via direct debit but as only a telephone connection is available for what should we be liable?


Any advice very much appreciated.    :-\   

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Astral

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Re: Tiscali. Can it get any worse?
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2008, 05:34:12 PM »

Welcome to the forum CB. Love the moniker; has this condition come on since dealing with Tiscali? ;)

The first thing that occurs to me is the effect of picking up the phone on the ability to connect to broadband. I'm fairly certain that you have a "high open" fault on the line. Do your folks get any "frying" noises on the line when using the telephone? If so, you need to get that fixed first. BT will do the fixing but  you will have to report the fault via Tiscali if you have a total package from them and don't pay line rental to BT. This should be reported as a telephone fault otherwise you will probably fobbed off again.

Let us know how you get on.
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roseway

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Re: Tiscali. Can it get any worse?
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2008, 06:58:05 PM »

I second what Astral has said - it does look like a line fault. It could be a faulty filter, so it's certainly worth trying the filters which came with the Netgear, if only to eliminate that possibility.

Quote
I should mention that on the 11th January a Tiscali Talk Welcome pack was received. This consisted of a Netgear DG834G (54 mbps adsl2+) modem router and a couple of filters. We have never tried to connect this item as my understanding is that a wireless router will not run properly at the connection speeds previously available. So to some extent it was a red herring. Am I correct in this assumption? 

No. The fact that it's a wireless router doesn't have any effect on the normal directly-connected ADSL performance. You can use the router in place of the present equipment with no performance issues. The wireless part is an optional extra which you can use if you want to or switch it off if you don't. And in fact, if you do use the wireless facility, its speed is way in excess of what the broadband connection provides, so it doesn't limit you in any way.
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  Eric

kitz

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Re: Tiscali. Can it get any worse?
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2008, 09:55:31 PM »

>> his condition could be achieved by lifting the telephone receiver to make a call – very odd.

As already mentioned - classic case of a "High Open Fault"
- see ~ adsl only works when the phone is being used.]

>> The alternatives would have been BT (already providing the telephone service), Talk Talk and Orange – all outfits with unenviable reputations

Just as an aside-  what you may not have realised is that your exchange will also support all BTw IPStream providers.

These would include the likes of
Zen, Plusnet, Enta, IDnet, metronet, f2s, newnet,  nildram, eclipse, pipex maaf...
erm I could list about 30 more off the top of my head... but I think you get the idea.

>> I am only about 300 metres

That line would be Well within the limits for a full 8Mb connection.
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Clenched Buttocks

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Re: Tiscali. Can it get any worse?
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2008, 10:19:02 AM »

Thanks very much indeed for the advice.

Astral:   Yes, I think it is extremely likely that prolonged involvement with Tiscali does rather compel one to reach for the Immodium. Good point about the “frying” noise; I shall confirm this with the folks and if so we’ll get BT involved.

Roseway:   That’s very interesting. Perhaps we should try to instal the router in anycase? Looks like I could have prejudged Tiscali regarding this item. Thanks.

Kitz:   Again, that’s news to me, Kitz. I probably should have looked into this further at the time. Nevertheless if t all goes tits-up with Tiscali (don’t think they would choose that as a strapline?) I will check out the BTw IPStream options.

Thanks again. See yer soon.  :)

CB.
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roseway

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Re: Tiscali. Can it get any worse?
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2008, 10:39:54 AM »

I don't think that changing the router is going to fix this particular problem. If there are no obvious crackles on the voice line, and changing the filters makes no difference, then it comes down to fighting it out with Tiscali or moving to a more competent ISP.
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  Eric

kitz

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Re: Tiscali. Can it get any worse?
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2008, 01:39:32 PM »

>> Again, that’s news to me, Kitz.

You wont be the first and you wont be the last - easy enough mistake to make.  :/

The BTw is actually "BT Wholesale" who provide all the backbone for all the IPStream ISPs.  Although part of the same larger group its actually a different company from "BT the ISP".  BT (the ISP) use BTw IPStream adsl.
All adsl exchanges (aside from hull) will have at least one BTw dslam which will be used by the IPStream ISPs

If you look on the ISP price list page - the end column 1 denotes IPStream only.. but 5,6,7+ 8 denote a mix (see the key).
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Clenched Buttocks

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Re: Tiscali. Can it get any worse?
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2008, 04:08:41 PM »


The BTw is actually "BT Wholesale" who provide all the backbone for all the IPStream ISPs.  Although part of the same larger group its actually a different company from "BT the ISP".  BT (the ISP) use BTw IPStream adsl.
All adsl exchanges (aside from hull) will have at least one BTw dslam which will be used by the IPStream ISPs

If you look on the ISP price list page - the end column 1 denotes IPStream only.. but 5,6,7+ 8 denote a mix (see the key).

IPSteam, might then prove the way out of this mess. I will have to look into it a bit further. One thing that is a bit odd, though, is that using the Broadband Availability Checker does not actually show Tiscali as being available in the area. Well I suppose you might argue that my folks have confirmed that it isn't!  ;D
Also the checker makes no reference to IPStream availibilty. Is ths correct or am I missing something?

CB
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roseway

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Re: Tiscali. Can it get any worse?
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2008, 04:26:58 PM »

IPStream is in effect the 'standard' on any BT line connected to an ADSL-enabled exchange. If the checker shows that ADSL Max is available then you have IPStream with the full selection of ISPs to choose from.
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hake

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Re: Tiscali. Can it get any worse?
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2008, 09:37:12 AM »

Tiscali  >:D  is a disgrace.  If you intend to cancel a Tiscali account, make sure you have made alternative arrangements for your email before doing so.  Tiscali trashed all my friend's facilities provided under the auspices of her Tiscali broadband account and a number of emails were destroyed.
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soms

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Re: Tiscali. Can it get any worse?
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2008, 09:54:31 AM »

Also if you intend to change from Tiscali enquire about any charges you may face terminating the service contract.

Some ISPs have a 3 month contract, others 12 months and even 18 months. For example i am on an 18 month BT broadband contract and get it a good bit cheaper for the first 6 months.

If you want to leave Tiscali and get a fixed speed IPStream service, your service will need to be "ceased", which will mean the contract is terminated, and BT will make a physical disconnection of your line from the broadband equipment at the exchange. This may mean two or three weeks without a broadband service.

If you choose to switch providers, you can get a Migration Authorisation Code (MAC) code (with great difficulty from Tiscali) which means that your service can be moved to another provider with minimum disruption as far less work is undertaken. Your broadband downtime can be less than an hour in this case.

Quote
One thing that is a bit odd, though, is that using the Broadband Availability Checker does not actually show Tiscali as being available in the area.

This refers to Tiscali having its own equipment installed at your exchange. In your case, as previously mentioned, Tiscali does not have this and is renting the use of BT wholesales equipment to like their ISP network with your telephone line.

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Clenched Buttocks

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Re: Tiscali. Can it get any worse?
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2008, 11:23:08 AM »

Roseway: Right, I get it. I reckon IPStream just might be the way to go.

Hake: Good point. Alternative email arrangements have been in place since day one.

Quote from: soms
Also if you intend to change from Tiscali enquire about any charges you may face terminating the service contract.

Some ISPs have a 3 month contract, others 12 months and even 18 months. For example i am on an 18 month BT broadband contract and get it a good bit cheaper for the first 6 months.
That’s what adds to the confusion of this case: there has been no contract provided. Unless Tiscali can regard a verbal confirmation by telephone from my mother as a contract? Would this be possible, do you think? And if there is no contract what exactly would need to be “ceased”? 

Quote from: soms
This may mean two or three weeks without a broadband service.
Well that's been endured already, so it will hardly prove to be a new experience.   :)

Quote from: soms
If you choose to switch providers, you can get a Migration Authorisation Code (MAC) code (with great difficulty from Tiscali) which means that your service can be moved to another provider with minimum disruption as far less work is undertaken.
I understand this should be done in writing and no doubt sent registered delivery. Surely, though, there would be some sanction from Offcom if MAC codes were not provided?

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roseway

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Re: Tiscali. Can it get any worse?
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2008, 11:43:00 AM »

Quote
That’s what adds to the confusion of this case: there has been no contract provided. Unless Tiscali can regard a verbal confirmation by telephone from my mother as a contract? Would this be possible, do you think? And if there is no contract what exactly would need to be “ceased”?

I think you'll find that verbal confirmation is all they need for a contract. This is a slightly dubious legal area, but it's common practice.

Quote
Surely, though, there would be some sanction from Offcom if MAC codes were not provided?

It's an OFCOM requirement that ISPs provide MAC codes when requested by the customer, but Tiscali are good at wriggling, and OFCOM are about as much use as a chocolate teapot.

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  Eric

kitz

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Re: Tiscali. Can it get any worse?
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2008, 02:56:32 PM »

Quote
The problem was that by the 19th January it was totally impossible to make a connection to broadband. This abysmal situation has continued to date.

That may be your get out clause... in that they have been unable to provide a satisfactory service or even a connection (If Ive read what you are saying right).
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Clenched Buttocks

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Re: Tiscali. Can it get any worse?
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2008, 03:34:01 PM »

Quote from: roseway
[I think you'll find that verbal confirmation is all they need for a contract. This is a slightly dubious legal area, but it's common practice.

You are probably right. In addition (and on reflection) I am sure they would use their sending and our receipt of the Netgear modem as validating the said contract. I note what you say re OFCOM.

Quote from: kitz
That may be your get out clause... in that they have been unable to provide a satisfactory service or even a connection (If Ive read what you are saying right).
What I intend to do, Kitz, is to visit my folks armed to try out some alternative modems and filters (as well as the Netgear router) and spend a few hours in determining whether or not there is any sign of broadband life. When, as I fully expect, we have confirmed the non-existence of any line, then I would guess that we will be in a strong position to use this to demonstrate that they have been unable to provide a satisfactory service.

Thanks guys.

CB.

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