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[simoncraddock]

BT had an entire year to prepare for worst case scenario so my guess is they will be rolling out a new system over the coming weeks if not already.

[kitz]

But, as we can see, BT (via its shills and stooges) would prefer, still, to argue otherwise!

You cannot call people shills and stooges just because they do not hold the same opinion as you.  This isnt a conspiracy theory forum. 

You have had your say and its abundantly clear which side of the fence you are on, but others have the right to put their thoughts forward too without being labelled a shill.  Nor does the fact that if someone doesnt agree with your option mean that they are in the pockets of BT.   

There's nothing sinister just because someone posts will it affect the roll out of vectoring.  Vectoring cant come soon enough for many of us, so anything that may hold up the roll out is a valid question and not a diversion tactic.

Personally I think the whole thing is a farce and without doubt ASSIA have tried to claim patent rights for already known technologies and for that even had a full patent withdrawn. That is why some people are forming the opinion that they have.  Its already been stated that the UK does not allow software patents.  I had been trying to read the whole case earlier and they are arguing over bits of code (not full copyright) and TBH it could have gone either one way or the other.

[kitz]

BT had an entire year to prepare for worst case scenario so my guess is they will be rolling out a new system over the coming weeks if not already.

Yep. I think they already have something in progress.  We've seen some odd changes over the past week.  NS was the first to spot a line on MDWS that should have been Interleaved from the 21st which wasn't, so they turned something off.  -link, but we also had some lines which were seeing normal DLM activity.   Then a few days ago Interleaving was applied to some lines when it shouldn't have been, and then promptly corrected the next day.  They are definitely tweaking.

[kitz]

Ummmmmm   - not sure what ASSIA are playing at.   

http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/consultations/llu-wlr-cc-13/responses/Adaptive_Spectrum_and_Signal_Alignment_Inc.pdf

Trying to make OFCOM make BT use ASSIA's DLM because

BT Openreach has historically used proprietary solutions for DSL management,the
performance of which may be substantially below industry norms;

yet in the next breath they claim dominance in DLM,   then say that its unfair that BT should have a dominant position in the UK market for provision of DSL.   

In addition, ASSIA has significant concerns about the effect on potential competition
of a regulatory regime that fails to give BT the incentive to employ best-in-class
management practices and to create appropriate open management interfaces
. Inshort, other operators will be forced to use BT Openreach’s own DSL management
technology for the NGA network (in the same way as has already happened forcurrent ADSL services). This ‘vanilla
-only’ approach to DSL management will discourage operators from developing innovative services for their customers (and
indeed may prevent some services from being offered at all) and will weaken the
competitive spur to BT itself to offer the seservices.

Also... Whats this letter to NICC about ?
http://www.niccstandards.org.uk/governance/ASSIA%20IPR%20Disclosure%20NICC%20Study%20303.pdf?type=pdf

[pedro492]

BT had an entire year to prepare for worst case scenario so my guess is they will be rolling out a new system over the coming weeks if not already.

Not just one year to prepare, but over three!  From ASSIA serving legal notice in Nov 2011, BT has had over three years to either remove or license the infringing components from its FTTC DLM System.

Yet instead of doing the honourable thing for all stakeholders concerned -- subscribers, shareholders, patent holders, and so on -- BT figured it could bluff its way out of it in the British courts.

That legal strategy has back-fired spectacularly.   

It's also extraordinarily inept to allow it to get to an injunctive stage with no proper contingency plan in place.   BT could, and doubtless should, have either licensed the infringing components, or else replaced them altogether, some two or even three years ago.   That it chose to do neither, doesn't say much about the current management of the corporation.    Ultimately, the subscriber is being punished for BT's incompetence and arrogance.

I doubt BT would touch ASSIA with a barge pole.

Maybe it's the other way around? Why would ASSIA want a relationship with BT over its vectoring technologies, when it's been pilfering its earlier inventions?    A salutary lesson there, perhaps, for all companies doing business with BT.  Especially for those companies without the financial resources or legal expertise to safeguard their intellectual property in a court of law, against the rapacious grasp of one of the largest telcos in the world.

By contrast, BT can draw on almost limitless funds to drag out any litigation.  That was perhaps why BT was refused leave to appeal.

[pedro492]

ASSIA's submission to Ofcom sounds eminently reasonable. There's nothing overtly offensive in it, at least not to most of us outside the BT Group.

It lays out a set of proposals which are framed on the grounds of encouraging competition. Ultimately to improve the technologies of DLM systems used by BT (and others).

ASSIA is calling for:

* the development and use of open standards in the DLM/DSM interfaces available to other operators and re-sellers. Those open standards being equally open to all developers of DLM Systems, not just ASSIA.
* BT to "unbundle" its DSL management services to encourage competition.
* BT to introduce through open DLM/DSM interfaces the ability for resellers to "meaningfully control the physical layer properties of wholesale services";  it's a huge matter of concern that only BT Openreach can currently access the DLM system.
* BT to separately account for the cost of development / maintenance of DLM Systems; to ensure there's no cross-subsidizing across the BT Group, that could harm competitors

We shouldn't lose sight of the fact, as ASSIA quite rightly points out, that through the introduction of FTTC, several decades of improvement in internet access competition have been reversed. ADSL LLU had previously worked quite well, stimulating competition, which resulted in considerably better internet services for many end-users. However, through FTTC, BT has regained its old stranglehold on the internet access market in the UK; today, owning almost all FTTC subscriber lines in the country.   That's really no good for competition.    So that's the backdrop.  Again, I'm with ASSIA on this!

[Black Sheep]

I think we're diversifying from the point-at-hand slightly. The crux of the matter is that BT were found culpable of patent infringement. They had their day in Court and lost. Not through arrogance, but through their right to defend themselves.
Far from being all smug about the possible outcome, they did have contingency plans put in place. Through our confidential commercial interest policy, I am unable to reference what that was, but I'm sure it's guessable ? 

I'm afraid you paint ASSIA as this knight in shining armour, wanting what's best for the EU, opening up opportunities for the ISP's to individually go tinkering with DLM (NOT a good thing), encouraging competition. Another contributor (Broadstairs I think ?) has already pointed out ................. this is big business, cut-throat indeed. ASSIA want what's best for ASSIA, not the EU.

[Mark07]

Something is still doing something, somewhere... my IP profile went up from 35.8 to 37.2 yesterday 

[Ixel]

Something is still doing something, somewhere... my IP profile went up from 35.8 to 37.2 yesterday 

DLM is working, or appears to be, possibly now under the changes needed to be done by BT. See my post at http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=14598.msg275728#msg275728.

[Black Sheep]

I hope they take BT to court every week, it's doing wonders for my share values. 

[simoncraddock]

I hope they take BT to court every week, it's doing wonders for my share values. 

Don't mind the rest of us. 

[Mark07]

Something is still doing something, somewhere... my IP profile went up from 35.8 to 37.2 yesterday 

DLM is working, or appears to be, possibly now under the changes needed to be done by BT. See my post at http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=14598.msg275728#msg275728.

Interesting thanks 

[Black Sheep]

I hope they take BT to court every week, it's doing wonders for my share values. 

Don't mind the rest of us. 

Ha ha ...... don't worry, Simon .......... I shan't.