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Author Topic: PLT, DSL, PowerLine Adaptors & EMI  (Read 8880 times)

kitz

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PLT, DSL, PowerLine Adaptors & EMI
« on: November 15, 2014, 06:16:45 PM »

Stumbled across this document which may make interesting reading for someone.

Its a government report of PowerLine Telecommunication Technologies, that specifically mentions the use of PLT for delivery of broadband and also the use of PowerLine [Adapters] in the home causing EMI and interference with xDSL technology.
  • technologies, that use the electric power lines (the "mains") to, and within, homes to carry the high speed data signals used by broadband Internet.
  • mains wiring is unsuitable for carrying such signals, and so PLT results in excessive electromagnetic interference (EMI).


http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200910/cmselect/cmbis/72/72we21.htm

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kitz

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Re: PLT, DSL, PowerLine Adaptors & EMI
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2014, 06:25:17 PM »

PS If anyone has these

TP LINK AV500 Gigabit Powerline Adapter Kit


Quote
The equipment does not meet the requirements of CISPR 22 chapters in "Limits of mains terminal disturbance voltage" and "Limits for radiated disturbance."

They have been withdrawn & Banned in Norway - link

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Ironically these are sold by BT  :-X
« Last Edit: November 15, 2014, 06:33:53 PM by kitz »
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kitz

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Re: PLT, DSL, PowerLine Adaptors & EMI
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2014, 06:32:21 PM »

As have these

Netgear XAVB5004 Powerline 4-Port AV 500 Kit



Quote
The equipment does not meet the requirements of CISPR 22 chapters "Limits of mains terminal disturbance voltage" and "Limits for radiated disturbance."

They have been withdrawn and banned in Norway - link
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JGO

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Re: PLT, DSL, PowerLine Adaptors & EMI
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2014, 06:49:25 PM »

The idea was OK for a central printer in an office, but IMHO has been pushed far beyond a sensible data rate. 
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loonylion

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Re: PLT, DSL, PowerLine Adaptors & EMI
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2014, 06:50:53 PM »

I think someone on our street has the tp link ones, I installed them. Can't remember the exact model though
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: PLT, DSL, PowerLine Adaptors & EMI
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2014, 07:08:49 PM »

I've recently being trying to ascertain whether the smart meters being rolled out in UK use any form of power line comms.   

I know(/think) they use low power radio within the home, as well as mobile phone technology for contacting HQ, but not sure whether they may also use plc for any reasons?

Haven't yet found any definitive answers.
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NewtronStar

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Re: PLT, DSL, PowerLine Adaptors & EMI
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2014, 08:24:24 PM »

This part really hits home ->  It can also interfere with the delivery of broadband Internet by xDSL technologies using telephone cables, slowing their data rate.

I was using the TP-Link AV200 model no: TP-PA211
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loonylion

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Re: PLT, DSL, PowerLine Adaptors & EMI
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2014, 08:27:51 PM »

This part really hits home ->  It can also interfere with the delivery of broadband Internet by xDSL technologies using telephone cables, slowing their data rate.

I was using the TP-Link AV200 model no: TP-PA211

PA211 rings a bell, guess that's what my neighbour has.
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Black Sheep

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Re: PLT, DSL, PowerLine Adaptors & EMI
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2014, 10:39:28 PM »

As have these

Netgear XAVB5004 Powerline 4-Port AV 500 Kit



Quote
The equipment does not meet the requirements of CISPR 22 chapters "Limits of mains terminal disturbance voltage" and "Limits for radiated disturbance."

They have been withdrawn and banned in Norway - link

They also banned the movie, 'The Life of Brian' in Norway. Just about sums them up.  ;) ;D ;D
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JGO

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Re: PLT, DSL, PowerLine Adaptors & EMI
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2014, 04:01:30 PM »

I've recently being trying to ascertain whether the smart meters being rolled out in UK use any form of power line comms.   





I don't think so either, which is surprising as they have used the grid for slow data for years.  However, something with the data rate appropriate to a meter ( or a printer  ) isn't going to do as much damage as a pseudo Ethernet link particularly if they use something like Piccolo.
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kitz

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Re: PLT, DSL, PowerLine Adaptors & EMI
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2014, 05:05:50 PM »

This part really hits home ->  It can also interfere with the delivery of broadband Internet by xDSL technologies using telephone cables, slowing their data rate.

I was using the TP-Link AV200 model no: TP-PA211

It was TL-PA511 that was banned for producing too much noise disturbance. - Which is the model that BT are selling from their site.
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NewtronStar

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Re: PLT, DSL, PowerLine Adaptors & EMI
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2014, 08:00:44 PM »

This part really hits home ->  It can also interfere with the delivery of broadband Internet by xDSL technologies using telephone cables, slowing their data rate.

I was using the TP-Link AV200 model no: TP-PA211

It was TL-PA511 that was banned for producing too much noise disturbance. - Which is the model that BT are selling from their site.

what are you getting at Kitz ? does it matter which shop you purchase it from got my TP-PA211 from PC World and they produced too much noise disturbance they fall into the same category as TL-PA511  ::)
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kitz

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Re: PLT, DSL, PowerLine Adaptors & EMI
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2014, 08:12:24 PM »

I wasnt referring as to where you purchased it from.   

I was referring to the fact it was ironic that BT was selling a product that is known to introduce surplus noise on to DSL.
If it was PCWorld then perhaps I wouldnt have found it quite as weird.
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NewtronStar

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Re: PLT, DSL, PowerLine Adaptors & EMI
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2014, 08:24:16 PM »

I wasnt referring as to where you purchased it from.   

I was referring to the fact it was ironic that BT was selling a product that is known to introduce surplus noise on to DSL.
If it was PCWorld then perhaps I wouldnt have found it quite as weird.

I suppose it's one way for BT to cap the end-user line, it looks as though these devices where rushed out for consumers well before detailed research into the negative impact at home & further afield  :( 
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: PLT, DSL, PowerLine Adaptors & EMI
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2014, 07:40:34 PM »

I am getting the impression my hunches may have been correct, re overlap of smart meter and homeplug power line comms technologies.

I have no idea whether this is relevant to any current or planned UK smart meter roll out, but there does seem to be an emerging homeplug technology 'Homeplug Green PHY', aimed at the smart meter industry as well as other 'green' industries.   

And if I understand correctly, it involves high speed power line comms within the home.  Though I can't comment on how it would co-exist with vdsl, that would be pure speculation.

Purely as example, see following from qualcomm...

http://www.qca.qualcomm.com/ioe/homeplugr-green-phy

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