Kitz ADSL Broadband Information
adsl spacer  
Support this site
Home Broadband ISPs Tech Routers Wiki Forum
 
     
   Compare ISP   Rate your ISP
   Glossary   Glossary
 
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Author Topic: pooclahs connection gone downhill  (Read 4791 times)

pooclah

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
pooclahs connection gone downhill
« on: November 11, 2014, 05:09:22 PM »

After nearly 2 years of a perfect 80/20 connection a couple of months ago things started to go wrong.  Although the attainable rate had dropped during that time I still had enough headroom for full synch, but then I got hit by a lot of errors and re-synchs and the inevitable happened, DLM’d.  The interleaving and lower synch took care of the errored seconds and CRC’s but the FEC errors were, and have remained high, so I guess that’s why no reprieve.

Since the errors started throughput has declined randomly, sometimes it’s OK, sometimes it’s really poor and my son noticed that sometimes there was noise on the landline.  Last Friday the noise on the landline was bad so I reported the problem to BT who agreed there was a fault and an engineer was needed, so an appointment made for this morning.  Great I thought, landline fixed and broadband back to normal.

The engineer turned up and made it clear that he was just running tests on the line, sending the results to my service provider, who would assess them, and then decide what action was needed.  He kept emphasising service provider for some reason even though I’d told him I was with BT and there was a HH5 in front him.  Sods law that the line was fine when he tried the quiet line test, but he hooked up his meter to check the line for a fault.  This is where it gets odd, he said the line passed all the tests and was fine, but asked if I had a problem with my broadband (I hadn’t reported a broadband fault to BT, or mentioned broadband to him) I said that yes it was playing up a bit and he said that I should get my ‘service provider’ to send out a broadband engineer because the intermittent fault with my landline was possibly to do with a broadband equipment fault, possibly at the exchange.

This afternoon I ran a BT Wholesale speed test and below is a capture of the result.  So back on to BT who have asked me to wait 3 days because the tests the engineer ran this morning will have caused resets on my line that will need to settle.  They have asked me to monitor the connection and they will ring back Friday evening to see how things are.

If you’ve made your way through that lot above I have a couple of questions that a knowledgeable person may have the answers to:

Could the engineer see something on his meter that might not affect the voice part of the line, but mess with broadband?
Would anything the engineer did during his tests reset anything or are BT saying wait 3 days in case he upset the DLM by disconnecting me for a few minutes?
Logged

JGO

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 729
Re: pooclahs connection gone downhill
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2014, 06:26:32 PM »

Could the engineer see something on his meter that might not affect the voice part of the line, but mess with broadband?

I doubt it, but you had a problem and BT agreed with you ! Also BT's speed test tells you to report a BB fault.  A fault can be intermittent - those can be the very devil.

An idea - any possibilities of local radio interference either REIN or RFI or Crosstalk ?   Can you see any sort of pattern through the day, when you are available ?  More detail of your setup might help, underground or overhead wires ?  distance from cabinet etc

Sorry this is little more than moral support, but clearly something is wrong.


Logged

kitz

  • Administrator
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 33888
  • Trinity: Most guys do.
    • http://www.kitz.co.uk
Re: pooclahs connection gone downhill
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2014, 07:20:00 PM »

Jeeze thats not right.

Im afraid Ive nothing much more to say other than what JGO already has.
I think the phone back on Friday is delaying tactics.  Whatever the engineer did today upset your DSL, possibly he disturbed the physical line further..  and as such BToR need to revisit.
Logged
Please do not PM me with queries for broadband help as I may not be able to respond.
-----
How to get your router line stats :: ADSL Exchange Checker

pooclah

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
Re: pooclahs connection gone downhill
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2014, 07:24:47 PM »

Hi JGO

I’m using the Openreach HG612 as a modem (to collect stats)
A HH5 as router (for the wireless AC capability – a gift from BT for renewing my contract)
Cables run about 300mtrs (over estimate) underground from the cabinet to a pole about 6mtrs from my house.

The voice fault is intermittent I can accept that it may need to get worse before it can be found and fixed.  The broadband throughput is up and down, no consistency, no pattern, just random.  And as you can see it is bad at times – that capture was at about 12:00 on a Tuesday morning.

I just find it odd the engineer asked if I had a broadband problem when I hadn’t mentioned it.

Things went downhill a couple of months ago, no changes here, no new neighbours, no changes that I’m aware of.

As I said I’ve reported the throughput issue to BT but they want me to wait 3 days to let the line settle after the voice engineers tests.
Logged

tommy45

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 627
Re: pooclahs connection gone downhill
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2014, 07:30:45 PM »

Was this  a proper BT engineer or one of those pretend engineers from Kelly coms or Quinns ? Because it does sound as if he didn't have a clue re some of the comments he made,
If he had a JDSU or EXFO testing device ,and was knowledgeable in how to use it ect , then any line issues should of been identified , It does sound like he didn't have that kit with him,

As for BT retail and their 3 days to settle , IMO is nonsense typical of BT
Logged

Chrysalis

  • Content Team
  • Addicted Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 7409
  • VM Gig1 - AAISP CF
Re: pooclahs connection gone downhill
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2014, 07:45:49 PM »

sadly tommy SFI engineers can be very hit and miss and I think kelly are only used on installs.

I have read twice now (once from BS on here and also from andyh on plusnet forum) that supposedly boost engineers are not much different to SFI yet by coincidence the boost engineer I had was very good (my install engineer) and all the SFI were bad.  Plusnet told me on the phone boost engineer's cost more, there must be a reason for that extra cost.
Logged

pooclah

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
Re: pooclahs connection gone downhill
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2014, 07:54:12 PM »

He was a real Openreach engineer – which is why after few a times of him saying to me ‘service provider’ I kept pointing to the BT logo on the side of his Openreach van that was parked in front of the window.

I’m not sure what device he used, he removed the faceplate, plugged something into the master socket, and then connected his device to that.  Then he used his mobile phone to call a number and entered numbers as answers to questions from an automated service.

I’m patient – until Friday
« Last Edit: November 11, 2014, 07:57:34 PM by pooclah »
Logged

Black Sheep

  • Helpful
  • Addicted Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5722
Re: pooclahs connection gone downhill
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2014, 08:09:02 PM »

The engineer turned up and made it clear that he was just running tests on the line, sending the results to my service provider, who would assess them, and then decide what action was needed.  He kept emphasising service provider for some reason even though I’d told him I was with BT and there was a HH5 in front him.  Sods law that the line was fine when he tried the quiet line test, but he hooked up his meter to check the line for a fault.  This is where it gets odd, he said the line passed all the tests and was fine, but asked if I had a problem with my broadband (I hadn’t reported a broadband fault to BT, or mentioned broadband to him) I said that yes it was playing up a bit and he said that I should get my ‘service provider’ to send out a broadband engineer because the intermittent fault with my landline was possibly to do with a broadband equipment fault, possibly at the exchange.

This afternoon I ran a BT Wholesale speed test and below is a capture of the result.  So back on to BT who have asked me to wait 3 days because the tests the engineer ran this morning will have caused resets on my line that will need to settle.  They have asked me to monitor the connection and they will ring back Friday evening to see how things are.

If you’ve made your way through that lot above I have a couple of questions that a knowledgeable person may have the answers to:

Could the engineer see something on his meter that might not affect the voice part of the line, but mess with broadband?
Would anything the engineer did during his tests reset anything or are BT saying wait 3 days in case he upset the DLM by disconnecting me for a few minutes?


Having not been on-site, I can only go off your comments to try and draw a conclusion as to the type of engineering visit you have had ??

It sounds like you have had a CDTA (Conscious Decision To Appoint) engineering visit ??
This basically is built by the SP (Service Provider). As BT Openreach, we work for and on behalf of all SP's with no favouritism shown to any particular one, so even though BT Retail are your provider, we are still at liberty to refer to them as your SP.
Of course, we are not breaking any of Ofcom's 'Equivalence rulings' by calling the SP by name, it's just sometimes there are re-sellers involved and it can get confusing for all concerned ?.

So, back to the CDTA task. The protocol that the engineer has to follow (as agreed by the SP), is to perform a PQT (Pair Quality Test) via a JDSU/EXFO, and to listen to the QLT (Quiet Line Test). If both tests pass, then the engineer has to leave immediately. This is the ruling.

A helluva lot of CDTA's are raised by the SP when in fact a Broadband SFI task is what is required, which is probably why the engineer asked if you were having BB issues ??. However, on your particular CDTA you comment that audible noise was heard by your SP hence their obvious route of raising a CDTA at this point in the process.

As mooted above, due to the constraints on a CDTA task, I very much doubt the engineer would have connected his meter in DSL mode to look for error-counts, SNR wobbles etc ?? It is this next level of engineering (BB SFI task) that generally helps in locating metallic path issues, like HR (High-Resistance) faults which your circuit appears to be suffering from ?

The '3-day wait to settle' I fear, is just another script-read protocol they have to follow ? But it's worth noting that if the DSL cord is unplugged from the telephone socket/Hub before the actual power is switched off to the Hub, then the DLM won't receive the 'Dying gasp' message the Hub would normally send. This 'gasp' is sent to suspend DLM interference.
So the script may be there to satisfy this particular instance ?

Hope this makes sense. :) 
 
Logged

Black Sheep

  • Helpful
  • Addicted Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5722
Re: pooclahs connection gone downhill
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2014, 08:13:13 PM »

sadly tommy SFI engineers can be very hit and miss and I think kelly are only used on installs.

I have read twice now (once from BS on here and also from andyh on plusnet forum) that supposedly boost engineers are not much different to SFI yet by coincidence the boost engineer I had was very good (my install engineer) and all the SFI were bad.  Plusnet told me on the phone boost engineer's cost more, there must be a reason for that extra cost.

The only difference between an SFI and a Boost task, is the ability to be able to replace a faulty Hub/Router on a Boost task.

Edited to add ....... a Boost engineering visit will always be a repair visit, not an install. the engineer may have been 'Boost-trained', but he will not have been installing your circuit on a Boost task.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2014, 08:16:38 PM by Black Sheep »
Logged

Chrysalis

  • Content Team
  • Addicted Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 7409
  • VM Gig1 - AAISP CF
Re: pooclahs connection gone downhill
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2014, 01:38:15 AM »

I meant it was the same guy who did my install, this same guy has also been in touch with me numerous times over the phone.  He is very good.

It is eye opening reading your posts, because the info you reveal paints a very different picture to what isp's make out.

I suspect the agreed protocol to leave when JDSU passes is based on costs, the ISP's probably wanted cheap as possible callout's and this is what they get.
Logged

Black Sheep

  • Helpful
  • Addicted Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5722
Re: pooclahs connection gone downhill
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2014, 07:25:37 AM »

I suspect you are 100% correct, Chrys. As always, the bottom-line dictates.

TBH, I always try to look at it from all angles, and it must be a juggling act deciding what is best for both the EU and the business as a whole?? If, when the EU reports an intermittent noise fault, their subsequent remote line tests shows a 'Line Tests OK'  result, I suspect a CDTA task is the most frugal path to take.

Logged
 

anything