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[kitz]

The older figures seem to have closer correlation with user's data.

I suspect that OR hasnt changed the speed parameters.   That is what I intend to find out when I get the chance. I nearly have all the pieces of the jigsaw.    Thats it from me now for a few days.  Got stuff I still need to do tonight. 

[Chrysalis]

why would openreach add a custom field just for themselves?

that list would be for CP's to choose from for their customer lines.

ok reread your post, yeah I remember that post it confused the hell out of me.

You seem to be saying that openreach buy some kind of service of BTw for FTTC and not the other way round?

As I understood it, openreach sells FTTC to the likes of BTw, sky and talktalk.  Then BTw resell to the likes of BT retail, plusnet, aaisp etc.  Openreach own and operate the cabinet equipment, why would they be BTw's customer?

[kitz]

>> You seem to be saying that openreach buy some kind of service of BTw for FTTC and not the other way round?


...  and THAT is exactly why I said the other day, FTTC is a complete tangled web, because each are buying from the other.   It worked oK before FTTC, but since then its hard to know which bit belongs to whom.
The backhaul belongs to BTw. The OSS belongs to BTw. FTTC belongs to Openreach. NCAS is a BTw system. The FTTC cabs need Element Managers which are owned by BTw.  The Management Device is owned by BTw.   FTTC Openreach needs to hook into NCAS and get to the OSS to make any changes to the DLM, and it then becomes difficult to know who owns what and who is purchasing from whom.   The ISP is buying an Openreach product, from which Openreach needs to access NCAS, and then the ISP buys it from Wholesale.. and have no access to the OSS because, Openreach is the customer.   Confused yet?   Yep you should be. 

why would they be BTw's customer?

Because they need to use the DLM system.  Regardless of which ISP is reselling the product.  Sky or Plusnet or whatever.  They all use the BTw OSS.

[NewtronStar]

Hi Kitz please enjoy your hols 

When you get back I hope you can provide the number of errored seconds needed over 24 hours for 14 days for an interleaved line to become non-interleaved 

[kitz]

Hi Kitz please enjoy your hols

I take it that was a joke, but yes it may be a holiday lol 

Re the E/Secs... I shall certainly try, because this is what Im hoping to get to the bottom of.   What I thought was going to be pretty straight forward and the page I originally started had to temp be put on hold, because I realised that the whole DLM system needed explaining before I could attempt to explain the the functions   If I'd done it the other way round, people would soon be asking "Whats an Element Manager",  Whats RAP, whats NCAS, whats OSS etcetc.

[NewtronStar]

Hi Kitz please enjoy your hols

I take it that was a joke, but yes it may be a holiday lol 

Sorry i've put my foot in it, thought you were going on holiday and look back at your previous post after i posted   

I'm am a complete dick head there is no other word for it.

[Chrysalis]

>> You seem to be saying that openreach buy some kind of service of BTw for FTTC and not the other way round?


...  and THAT is exactly why I said the other day, FTTC is a complete tangled web, because each are buying from the other.   It worked oK before FTTC, but since then its hard to know which bit belongs to whom.
The backhaul belongs to BTw. The OSS belongs to BTw. FTTC belongs to Openreach. NCAS is a BTw system. The FTTC cabs need Element Managers which are owned by BTw.  The Management Device is owned by BTw.   FTTC Openreach needs to hook into NCAS and get to the OSS to make any changes to the DLM, and it then becomes difficult to know who owns what and who is purchasing from whom.   The ISP is buying an Openreach product, from which Openreach needs to access NCAS, and then the ISP buys it from Wholesale.. and have no access to the OSS because, Openreach is the customer.   Confused yet?   Yep you should be. 

why would they be BTw's customer?

Because they need to use the DLM system.  Regardless of which ISP is reselling the product.  Sky or Plusnet or whatever.  They all use the BTw OSS.

enjoy your break kitz but when you back are you sure openreach do not have their own separate DLM, if it was BTw operated I would have expected it to operate in the same manner as 21CN adsl and it doesnt.

It has different tags for each profile and a different algorithm.  Plus I assume this would be illegal under ofcom rules since openreach and BTw are supposed to be operated separately.

What stops openreach having their own OSS or equivalent?

[Chrysalis]

Hi Kitz please enjoy your hols

I take it that was a joke, but yes it may be a holiday lol 

Sorry i've put my foot in it, thought you were going on holiday and look back at your previous post after i posted   

I'm am a complete dick head there is no other word for it.

Not sure what is going on there I guess is something more known about on the VIP section of the board that BS is on.

Hope the hospital visit is swift and without issues whatever it is for.

[kitz]

Hi Kitz please enjoy your hols

I take it that was a joke, but yes it may be a holiday lol 

Sorry i've put my foot in it, thought you were going on holiday and look back at your previous post after i posted   

I'm am a complete dick head there is no other word for it.

No please no need for apologies, I thought you may be joking about taking a holiday.  The past few weeks have been a bit manic.

[kitz]

>> You seem to be saying that openreach buy some kind of service of BTw for FTTC and not the other way round?


...  and THAT is exactly why I said the other day, FTTC is a complete tangled web, because each are buying from the other.   It worked oK before FTTC, but since then its hard to know which bit belongs to whom.
The backhaul belongs to BTw. The OSS belongs to BTw. FTTC belongs to Openreach. NCAS is a BTw system. The FTTC cabs need Element Managers which are owned by BTw.  The Management Device is owned by BTw.   FTTC Openreach needs to hook into NCAS and get to the OSS to make any changes to the DLM, and it then becomes difficult to know who owns what and who is purchasing from whom.   The ISP is buying an Openreach product, from which Openreach needs to access NCAS, and then the ISP buys it from Wholesale.. and have no access to the OSS because, Openreach is the customer.   Confused yet?   Yep you should be. 

why would they be BTw's customer?

Because they need to use the DLM system.  Regardless of which ISP is reselling the product.  Sky or Plusnet or whatever.  They all use the BTw OSS.

enjoy your break kitz but when you back are you sure openreach do not have their own separate DLM, if it was BTw operated I would have expected it to operate in the same manner as 21CN adsl and it doesnt.

It has different tags for each profile and a different algorithm.  Plus I assume this would be illegal under ofcom rules since openreach and BTw are supposed to be operated separately.

What stops openreach having their own OSS or equivalent?

I've seen the diagrams of how the FTTC cabs hook into the DLm system.  It's just not as pretty as my diagram and uses plain square boxes. They all hook into the one system

If they purchase a service from btw then no it's not illegal.   Custom allows for separate profiles, which is what bt or have done.    Why don't they purchase their own.  Well they could do, but they'd be duplicating equipment and a system that is already there.  The dlm system is massive. 
Look how they also use bras profiles at the bras for the bt based ISPs.

[kitz]

Hi Kitz please enjoy your hols

I take it that was a joke, but yes it may be a holiday lol 

Sorry i've put my foot in it, thought you were going on holiday and look back at your previous post after i posted   

I'm am a complete dick head there is no other word for it.

Not sure what is going on there I guess is something more known about on the VIP section of the board that BS is on.

Hope the hospital visit is swift and without issues whatever it is for.

Nothing to do with the Pte section.  I've told you before that only has about 4 threads in about 5yrs.    :/.  I actually mentioned it in this thread, which is where a couple of people such as BS and bcat picked up on it.     

Damn ipad can't post link.

[kitz]

Here you go post 43 of this thread
http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=14598.msg273161#msg273161

[Chrysalis]

kitz when you back can you post that diagram that shows openreach using BTw systems, thanks, and get some rest.  Dont worry about replying to me now.

But basically as I understand what you saying is openreach have effectively outsourced the DLM, so effectively they paying BTw to run the DLM.  Whether or not that means openreach have told BTw how to set the profiles or BTw makes that decision? curious.

There was a guy on the BT retail forums a year or so back telling people BTw ran DLM and everyone was calling him a liar, not so sure now.

[les-70]

 I am loosing the wood for the trees in this discussion.  How much of the above discussion is about the FTTC DLM and how much is about the BT/BTw adsl2+ DLM?  I thought the FTTC DLM was a separate and distinct beast with quite different characteristics to the adsl2+ one.

[atkinsong]

BTW could soon be folded into Openreach!

See

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/mediatechnologyandtelecoms/telecoms/11229857/BT-plans-to-scrap-2.4bn-Wholesale-division.html