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[kitz]

No sorry.   Not got that info.

All I know is that SES are usually a good indication of SHINE type noise.  Its easy(ier) to rack up a ES as they can be triggered by just a couple of CRCs in a second.... but a SES is when a one second period contains >30% errored data.

[les-70]

  SES certainly look like a good counter of the number of SHINE events I get each day.  At times first thing in the morning but mainly at lighting up time when ever that is.  You see it vary though the year.  I had guessed they were counted as much worse than an ES and limiting them has been my main speed cap and modem messing about aim. I had rather hoped only ES and resyncs counted but it seems my fears may be well placed.

[NewtronStar]

  SES certainly look like a good counter of the number of SHINE events I get each day.  At times first thing in the morning but mainly at lighting up time when ever that is.  You see it vary though the year.  I had guessed they were counted as much worse than an ES and limiting them has been my main speed cap and modem messing about aim. I had rather hoped only ES and resyncs counted but it seems my fears may be well placed.

Les-70 you are known as the sync capping guru has the experiment failed ?

[les-70]

  No I suspect not.  Due to SHINE my line is probably close to border line re DLM actions and capping seems to have held it bay.

[Chrysalis]

here is why he not been DLM'd with the high ES, mystery solved

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/6726-assia-court-case-forces-openreach-to-turn-off-dlm.html

I guess you stuck newt

Have a feeling that the last part of your post is for me 

Then should one give up on the sync capping as it seems futile after reading your TBB link.

Well someone on OCUK is claiming to have been banded yesterday which would suggest at least "part" of DLM is still enabled, note kitz suggested earlier it may only be a partial shutdown.

I now agree with kitz about how DLM is managed, with the different components of the network managed by BT wholesale.

So I dont know if what you doing is futile or not, the press reports suggest it is disabled, and the guy with the high ES not been DLM'd seems to fit into that.

It is even possible DLM was turned off but is now back on, it may have just been off for a very short time.

Edit - to add openreach press release stated they start shutting down 21 nov, meaning it might be the case they are in the process of shutting it down but it takes time to do nationwide.  So thats another possibility.

[kitz]

N*Star, I can assure you that for the very first 24 hours after the installation, your line will have been configured "wide open" on fast-path. It would have been from the second day onwards that the DLM system would have taken an interest in the line (and then only if it had just cause to do so).

I can confirm this.   Although I did see something that implied it may be 2 days - ie install day + one full day.   Be damned if I can find it now though to go back and check ..  but for sure everyone starts off with the wide open profile and interleaving wont have been added right from the start.

I notice wwwombat is also saying 2 days here

On the third day, DLM uses the statistics gathered on the first 2 days to decide whether to intervene;

[Bald_Eagle1]

BT's SIN 498 document has this to say on the matter:-

2.2.1 Dynamic Line Management

Dynamic Line Management (DLM) is employed in GEA-FTTC. DLM constantly manages lines to maintain a target link quality (speed and stability). It does this for as long as the product exists.

At provision, the line is put on “wide open” VDSL2 line profiles allowing the upstream and downstream line speeds to run at the upper limit of the product option selected.

On the first day of operation, DLM will intervene if severe instability is detected. Otherwise, DLM will wait until the day after provision before deciding if it must intervene, provided that the line has been trained up for at least 15 minutes during the preceding day.

If DLM intervenes it will set a profile with a maximum rate and a minimum rate, where the minimum rate is set at approximately half of the maximum rate. The purpose of the minimum rate is to ensure that the line does not train at a rate which is significantly below the level the line should be able to achieve. If this happened, then the line is likely to remain at a very low rate until a re-train is forced by the user by powering off the modem.

Note : It is the DLM system that sets the line profile, and this should not be interfered with by CPs/users setting rates, SNR margins etc. at the modem.

[burakkucat]

On the first day of operation, DLM will intervene if severe instability is detected. Otherwise, DLM will wait until the day after provision before deciding if it must intervene, provided that the line has been trained up for at least 15 minutes during the preceding day.

Thank you, Feathers. That is exactly what I was vaguely recalling. 

[NewtronStar]

I'll keep this sync capping in the on position as what I have noticed the ES's don't just suddenly drop off drop when you cap the sync the errored seconds gradually start lowering every 24 hours.

[kitz]

On the first day of operation, DLM will intervene if severe instability is detected. Otherwise, DLM will wait until the day after provision before deciding if it must intervene, provided that the line has been trained up for at least 15 minutes during the preceding day.

Thank you BE

So SINET says "day after provision". 
An internal document says one full day after provision (install day + 1 full day). 
Plusnet say 2 days

How confusing...
.. or could it just be the devil is in the detail on what a 'day' / full 24 hrs mean?

[kitz]

I'll keep this sync capping in the on position as what I have noticed the ES's don't just suddenly drop off drop when you cap the sync the errored seconds gradually start lowering every 24 hours.

It should do NS.  I think thats just the way that its graphed now in that 00:00 shows your highest figure and 01:00 shows your lowest, as the total is reset only after the 00:00 has been plotted.   Because MDWS only plots the E/S every hour, that is why between 00:00 it appears to decline, but in reality they would slowly be creeping back up again.   

[NewtronStar]

I'll keep this sync capping in the on position as what I have noticed the ES's don't just suddenly drop off drop when you cap the sync the errored seconds gradually start lowering every 24 hours.

It should do NS.  I think thats just the way that its graphed now in that 00:00 shows your highest figure and 01:00 shows your lowest, as the total is reset only after the 00:00 has been plotted.   Because MDWS only plots the E/S every hour, that is why between 00:00 it appears to decline, but in reality they would slowly be creeping back up again.   

This DLM ES observation seems random you have STARMAN on his 6th day with 6000+ ES's in 24hr and me down from 192 to 100 ES in 24hr to me the DLM does not treat eveyone equally though there are more EU's who have a lower attenuation who are non-interleaved than EU's with a higher attenuation so background noise is a big factor on longer lines.

[kitz]

It looked like Starman has a manual reset of DLM after his recent line fault.  I think the timing of the reset on the 21st & the recent ASSIA/BT dispute means that he has escaped the wrath of DLM and under normal circumstances, DLM would have caught up with him by now.

I suspect your line has a high ILQ rating based upon what ever happened in your first few months of FTTC, so therefore it will take a lot longer to recover.   Personally I think the recovery procedure is tough and way too strict. 

Im also unsure what profile BTretail provide their lines as.. theres only Plusnet and Zen who have been open and said they provide on 'Speed'. 
BT may provide as 'Standard' which is the default setting. There is rumour that TT customers with TalkTalkTV are provisioned on 'Stable'.
Customers provisioned as Standard or Stable by their ISP are going to take a lot longer to recover and get interleaving removed than those on an ISP which used 'Speed' 

[Chrysalis]

is newt not on plusnet then?

[kitz]

No hes not. 

The default profile setting for DLM is 'standard'. 
Theres only been Zen and Plusnet who've come out and said they provision on Speed, although I suspect AAISP will also likely be using 'Speed'.

If BT retail are provisioning on standard, that will likely be a contributing factor why NS will be DLM'd quicker, and it will take a heck of a lot more stability to get interleaving removed.   I pity any poor person with TalkTalkTV provisioned on Stable, as that will be a complete nightmare to get any changes removed - 2 Errored seconds per day and youve blown your chances.   

Someone needs to find out what BTr provision at, but finding out that info could be hard, as I bet most of the reps wouldnt have a clue what you are talking about