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[les-70]

  I am with TTB and have been speaking with two levels of their technical support.  It seems that all TT FTTC lines home and business are on standard and not speed.   It also seems impossible to get it changed with them.   They said they have set up their systems so the option is simply not available and the policy is not to allow it.

    With Plusnet I don't recall seeing anything so explicit.  I wonder if confusion is easy as the FTTC DLM settings may have different names to the adsl ones.

[kitz]

I estimated kitz last week to have less than 2880ES when she got interleaved but unfortunately she never confirmed that 24H stats from her router.

I think its not 100% accurate to guess daily ES from those graphs tho.

I think people only get unbanded if they syncing at the max cap of the band.  I am more referring to interleaving levels.

Sorry not had time to play with any figures, but what I have done is compiled a text file which shows each days error count during the period of my line problem.

If you want to do the maths - feel free


---------
ETA just realised I forgot to add the 17ths in too - now reuploaded new file.

[kitz]

The training doc states that it also takes into account the history of the line, the FEC count, and variations in things such as the rate (presumably either attainable rate or sync rate, not sure), that's assuming it's all accurate information.

I too have seen a document that says it takes into account line history.   A line which has never been interleaved or banded before will recover much quicker than one which has a troublesome history.

[Ixel]

The training doc states that it also takes into account the history of the line, the FEC count, and variations in things such as the rate (presumably either attainable rate or sync rate, not sure), that's assuming it's all accurate information.

I too have seen a document that says it takes into account line history.   A line which has never been interleaved or banded before will recover much quicker than one which has a troublesome history.

This may explain why it took several months before I returned from 60/20 fastpath to 80/20 fastpath, possibly.

[les-70]

well plusnet claimed earlier in the year when asked people are on the speed profile, would they lie, or have they misjudged who knows?

I estimated kitz last week to have less than 2880ES when she got interleaved but unfortunately she never confirmed that 24H stats from her router.

I think its not 100% accurate to guess daily ES from those graphs tho.

I think people only get unbanded if they syncing at the max cap of the band.  I am more referring to interleaving levels.

   As I noted in the post a few above it looks like all TT FTTC is on standard.  I recall the Plusnet default also being standard but I can find a reference at the moment.   I still think it may be good advice to take 1440/day as the limit even if it is for safety. 

Your right that estimating averages from mydslwebstats is not easy and unless the sampling is continuous 24/7 almost impossible.   I do still stand by my comment that it is odd that no one looks to reach more than 30-40/hour unless almost all have a limit of 60/hour.  There are probably more DLM hit users than not so many must have tested and gone through the limits. If the limit was 120/hour I am sure there should be some cases with more than 30-40/hour.

   It does look like Kitz went over all the limits when the DLM hit.  Kitz then ended up back in the green for any of the limits when it fully recovered so we can't say much from her case. 

[NewtronStar]

Well Les-70 looking at MDWS @ SNRM over 24/7 I must be the biggest swinger in town   

[Chrysalis]

kitz you had exactly 2788 ES on the US for many days in a row? that seems very odd as if a bug.

[Chrysalis]

The training doc states that it also takes into account the history of the line, the FEC count, and variations in things such as the rate (presumably either attainable rate or sync rate, not sure), that's assuming it's all accurate information.

I too have seen a document that says it takes into account line history.   A line which has never been interleaved or banded before will recover much quicker than one which has a troublesome history.

yes it will have a lower requirement for # of days in GREEN status.  I dont think the thresholds change just the # of days required.

[kitz]

kitz you had exactly 2788 ES on the US for many days in a row? that seems very odd as if a bug.

No its not a bug - those are my cumulative figures. 
Since they fixed whatever it was Ive not had any more US Errs - and my US ES count has stayed the same for days.  Same with the CRCs, Ive not had any US CRCs for days either.
To find the days total you have to subtract the current day from the previous day - which is why I said I hadnt had time to do the maths to find out each individual days total.
Theres also one day when the figures will be skewy and thats I think a week last Friday when I put the HG612 on and I left the line without any sync for a few hours whilst I was out before swapping the router over.

[kitz]

I dont think the thresholds change just the # of days required.

I'd agree with that.   This will have been my first real run-in with the DLM and it started to correct itself as soon as Id had one full good day.
Same with adslmax when he got clobbered the other month.  iirc it was his first time of being hit with the DLM too and he was back to normal 2 days later (ie one full day of the line behaving.

The one figure for sure that doesnt seem to tally is the 20 syncs.  adslmax did 5 to get hit.  His ErrSecs were ridiculously low, like about 10 so it cant have been that.
Plusnet supplied a copy of his RADIUS log for the past week and you could see from that that he did indeed only have 5 resyncs whilst swapping out routers. iirc there were a couple of PPP disconnects too, because he was trying to get on to a BNG, but the DLM isnt supposed to be able to see those..  and anyway even if you did count the PPP re-connects it was still waaaaay under 20.
Ive seen too many others get clobbered way before 20 too.

[kitz]

    With Plusnet I don't recall seeing anything so explicit.  I wonder if confusion is easy as the FTTC DLM settings may have different names to the adsl ones.

I asked last year - the reply I got from MattTaylor is here
http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,116753.msg1031733.html#msg1031733

[les-70]

  The TTB technical support said his screen showed my FTTC set at standard.  He had no options at all to change anything.  He then got through to provisioning who said they always provision on the BT/OR standard setting of standard and that they have a policy of not allowing other profiles.  He implied that the provisioning chap said there was a speed profile but I find ISP answers can be hard to really evaluate and rely on.  They give answers but are not always right!  The Plusnet reply looks clearer but i still wonder.

 If we find someone on Plusnet with average errors of more than 60/hour for at least a  few days and not DLM'd then I would tend to believe Plusnet is on Speed. As it is, mydslwebstats has only one - Baldeagle_1 over about 30/hour and he is banded, and next two others in the range 20-30 and not DLM's  -- 120/Hour just does not look like what is actually hitting people.  There are also as well many DLM'd with ES/hour always less than both 12 and 6 who seem stuck with the DLM.  These lmay or may not be explained by memory of the past.

  As you say its the same with resyncs, The exact numbers do not quite add up.

 

[Chrysalis]

kitz you had exactly 2788 ES on the US for many days in a row? that seems very odd as if a bug.

No its not a bug - those are my cumulative figures. 
Since they fixed whatever it was Ive not had any more US Errs - and my US ES count has stayed the same for days.  Same with the CRCs, Ive not had any US CRCs for days either.
To find the days total you have to subtract the current day from the previous day - which is why I said I hadnt had time to do the maths to find out each individual days total.
Theres also one day when the figures will be skewy and thats I think a week last Friday when I put the HG612 on and I left the line without any sync for a few hours whilst I was out before swapping the router over.

ok so the data you provided you only had a couple of days of errors then your line turned pristine with 0 on US

regardless the 2 days of errors was below 2880, did those 2 days DLM act?

[Chrysalis]

I dont think the thresholds change just the # of days required.

I'd agree with that.   This will have been my first real run-in with the DLM and it started to correct itself as soon as Id had one full good day.
Same with adslmax when he got clobbered the other month.  iirc it was his first time of being hit with the DLM too and he was back to normal 2 days later (ie one full day of the line behaving.

The one figure for sure that doesnt seem to tally is the 20 syncs.  adslmax did 5 to get hit.  His ErrSecs were ridiculously low, like about 10 so it cant have been that.
Plusnet supplied a copy of his RADIUS log for the past week and you could see from that that he did indeed only have 5 resyncs whilst swapping out routers. iirc there were a couple of PPP disconnects too, because he was trying to get on to a BNG, but the DLM isnt supposed to be able to see those..  and anyway even if you did count the PPP re-connects it was still waaaaay under 20.
Ive seen too many others get clobbered way before 20 too.

also my first time with DLM I know I recovered quickly, not quite as quick as you guys but I am pretty sure was under a week.

[Chrysalis]

  The TTB technical support said his screen showed my FTTC set at standard.  He had no options at all to change anything.  He then got through to provisioning who said they always provision on the BT/OR standard setting of standard and that they have a policy of not allowing other profiles.  He implied that the provisioning chap said there was a speed profile but I find ISP answers can be hard to really evaluate and rely on.  They give answers but are not always right!  The Plusnet reply looks clearer but i still wonder.

 If we find someone on Plusnet with average errors of more than 60/hour for at least a  few days and not DLM'd then I would tend to believe Plusnet is on Speed. As it is, mydslwebstats has only one - Baldeagle_1 over about 30/hour and he is banded, and next two others in the range 20-30 and not DLM's  -- 120/Hour just does not look like what is actually hitting people.  There are also as well many DLM'd with ES/hour always less than both 12 and 6 who seem stuck with the DLM.  These lmay or may not be explained by memory of the past.

  As you say its the same with resyncs, The exact numbers do not quite add up.

 

There is one thing that happened, that may shed some light but it wont be reliable.

When I migrated to plusnet within a week I was interleaved on a line that was on fast path for several months on infinity.  I also made a post on plusnet's forums asking if plusnet were using a different DLM profile to BT and the reply I got was along the lines no they use the most passive profile, but i cant be bothered to find that post now.

If all of us plusnet peeps are indeed on the middle profile then that would be 10 disconnects and 1440 ES for DLM action?

Also plusnet cannot see loss of sync events, they can only see loss of PPP.