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[HPsauce]

Well said 7LM.
I've often observed that light bulbs are used more indoors in winter alongside heating, which they are of course another form of (that also emits photons).
You can all draw your own conclusions on the alleged value of "energy-saving" light bulbs.....
(Not saying it's zero, but a degree of scepticism is warranted)

This sort of thing is different:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwnzc13j3w0

[kitz]

Nevertheless, the energy savings that 'Green' politicians and etc claim can be made by low power light bulbs and the likes are IMHO vastly exaggerated.

Tell me about it.  Ive recently had to buy a new washing machine as my old one had been fixed just once to often.  My new fangled machine takes twice as long to do a wash.   With the old machine I could take a feed direct from the hot water supply and I could do a full wash in 60mins. 
Not with the new enviro green machine I cant.  2 hours!..  because it only takes cold water and takes forever to heat it.

Im sure the old machine was much more efficient - far less time doing a cycle , so less electricity..  and able to take instant hot water which is cheaper to heat via my gas boiler.   

[sevenlayermuddle]

With the old machine I could take a feed direct from the hot water supply and I could do a full wash in 60mins. 
Not with the new enviro green machine I cant.  2 hours!..  because it only takes cold water and takes forever to heat it.

I suspect, but am not certain, I know the reason for that change...

...That is, I have heard rumour, that a bunch of well-intentioned but unscientific green politicians decided all washing machines should be labelled with comparative efficiency ratings, thus allowing environmentally conscious consumers to choose the 'most efficient'.

But as long as washing machines took a hot water feed, direct comparison was impossible as it depended entirely on the efficiency and temperature of the external hot water supply.   However, by mandating that all machines took only cold water a level playing field could be created, allowing the comparative energy ratings to be published even if it was counter-productive to overall goal of reducing energy consumption/costs and carbon footprint.

[Chrysalis]

Well how efficient old vs new is probably down to how good a boiler you got and if your boiler is used often anyway.

My boiler is only turned on when I have a bath and it needs over an hour to heat up the water, yes its an old boiler.  I would be very surprised if that was more efficient than my washing machine.

e.g. I use my kettle to heat up water to wash dishes as its simply more efficient than the boiler.

[Ducky]

I've now switched to using an old HP E8400 desktop in my workshop to run DSLstats (and other stuff), ordered one of those energy meters mentioned earlier to see what it draws. 

Energy bulbs....useless...I've actually switched all the bulbs back to normal 'eco' halogen ones in my house now, just got fed up of it being dull in the house as the bulbs too ages to brighten up!!

I'll take the hit on the bill just to be able to see!

[sevenlayermuddle]

The energy required to heat the fixed quantity of water needed for a wash will be the same, no matter how it is heated.   The cost however can vary.  For me, a kWh of electricity is about three times the cost of a kWh of gas so, by that reasoning, the new-fangled eco-friendly washing machines could be costing me up to three times what a traditional hot-feed machine with the same wash cycles, might cost.

Of course, nothing is that simple.  My boiler heats up a whole big cylinder of water, much more that the washing machine needs, so that will cost more.  But then that hot water is available throughout the day and, even if unused, heat from the tank contributes to house warming which ought to balance.... law of conservation of energy applies, again.

For anybody with an on-demand combi boiler, or hot water from solar panels, I suspect it would be hard to find any defence at all for cold-fill washing machines.

[Chrysalis]

My boiler takes much longer than 3x the time to heat water tho.  Thats why I use the kettle for dishes.  60s on the kettle vs 30-40min on the boiler, no brainer.

[HPsauce]

In vague defence of cold-fill machines we are encouraged to wash at 40c or even 30c these days and hot water will be at 60c.
So you need a mixture input and it's just cheaper to build with only one and the heating isn't huge as again they're designed to use less water.

I suspect the longer wash time is related to the temperature, though our new machine has a quick 45-minute 40c cycle that seems to wash most things perfectly adequately.

[sevenlayermuddle]

Fair point HP, and must admit I tend to use 40c wash mostly, these days.

I did so with my previous (hot/cold) fill machine too.   Can't remember if it was much quicker, but I suspect there was a difference.

[Ronski]

Chrysalis you need a combination boiler,  just make sure you have a good water flow rate. I've only ever fitted combination boilers whenever I've moved house and they've been great and I'm sure have saved plenty of money.

As to CFL bulbs I use 25w where I want a bright light, which are great when new but do suffer with time. So I've just ordered an LED bulb,  equivalent of 80w and instant on, also comes with a five year guarantee. No idea what it's like, as it's not arrived yet.

I don't think the heat output from a light bulb makes any substantial difference to house heating, so I'd rather lower my electric bill with eco bulbs and let my condensing boiler heat the house as required. Each room is also a separate heating zone with its own thermostat and timer, so only the rooms that need heat are heated at the appropriate times.

[HPsauce]

I did so with my previous (hot/cold) fill machine too. 

We've had hot/cold fill machines in the past; they only consistently used the hot fill on "boil" (90c) programmes, some also on 60c.

What they didn't do was mix the incoming flow or monitor/measure it in any way to get an appropriate "starting" temperature - too difficult I guess. It was simply hot fill or cold fill, depending on the programme selected.

[Chrysalis]

Ronski I see 2 issues, boilers arent cheap to buy so that has to be factored in, and I rent so the boiler isnt even my choice, as long as it functions the landlord wont replace it.  I am just pointing out not all of us have modern boilers that spit out hot water instantly on demand.

[sheddyian]

Many years ago, I'd heard that cold-only fill machines were the norm in "Europe" (maybe only certain countries?) and the UK was more unusual in preferring hot & cold fill.

So a move to cold-only fill could be a normalization of the market?

Also, in an ideal world (I know!  )  your hot water will be heated by solar, so the running costs are low.

Ian

[NewtronStar]

Also, in an ideal world (I know!  )  your hot water will be heated by solar, so the running costs are low.
Ian

Solar panels in the cloudiest place up here in the north with only 7 hours worth of gloomy daylight in winter would you still get a hot bath 

[Ronski]

Good point Chrysalis, I wouldn't want to be paying to replace a landlords boiler either.

Something I forgot to mention this morning,  when I installed our dishwasher that was cold fill only. So I purchased a mixing valve and set it to about 30 degrees so the dishwasher always gets warm water rather than cold. Not sure you could do this with a washing machine as they have a cold rinse program.