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Author Topic: My FTTC woes and why I got an ECI OR modem  (Read 43226 times)

Black Sheep

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Re: My FTTC woes and why I got an ECI OR modem
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2014, 09:25:29 AM »

Hi Roxy.

Unfortunately, you're quite a way from myself and my network access doesn't stretch that far. However, if you wanted to, you could PM me your telephone number and address (with postcode), and I may be able to dig a little deeper for you in relation to true distance from Cab, etc.

I've done this for lots of our members, and Kitz would hopefully attest to this ?  :)
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Roxy

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Re: My FTTC woes and why I got an ECI OR modem
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2014, 10:08:36 AM »

Was your speed estimate 80/20? as you stated you was estimated that.

Hi Chrysalis,

Yes, based on our telephone number, BT and the DSL line checker reported us at 80/20 over a clean line.

What made you estimate 52? or was that the actual isp estimate?

-Various VDSL distance charts show 50mbps is attainable at distance of 500 meters.
-The engineers we had out said they were confident the actual cable length was about that long.
-Additionally, because of the problems we were having, I started doing my own research and decided to do PSTN checks based on my neighbours who were showing the ability to achieve around 50mbps or great(however now knowing there may be a serious fault in the cabinet, who knows what the real numbers are).

What do you mean by 'maximum data rate to cabinet'?

In the Home Hub 5 router stats it shows 'Maximum Data Rate' which has been explained to me as the maximum 100% theoretical sync rate to the cabinet at any given time.

Now based on the info I understand.

24db attenuation for FTTC does indeed I reckon suggest around 400m, so it suggests something up with the cabling.

Yes, though I was being a bit conservative and going with the engineer's 500m claims as mention before.

As a comparison on google maps I am about 200m from my cab, openreach support told me my line length is just above 400m (if I remember right I lost the email) and that has my modem reporting overall attenuation of 24db.

Can you post the pbparams that show attenuation for each seperate channel e.g. here is mine

                  VDSL Port Details               Upstream                Downstream
Attainable Net Data Rate:           30899 kbps              73372 kbps
Actual Aggregate Tx Power:             5.9 dBm               13.6 dBm
====================================================================================
        VDSL Band Status                U0              U1              U2     U3               U4              D1              D2              D3
  Line Attenuation(dB):  1.5     12.9    26.7     N/A     N/A    9.7     22.6   35.7
Signal Attenuation(dB):  1.5     12.8    26.6     N/A     N/A    12.2    22.4   35.7
                SNR Margin(dB):  11.9    13.4    12.9     N/A     N/A    6.4    6.4      6.4
                 TX Power(dBm): -4.6    -27.6    5.5      N/A     N/A    10.7   7.3      7.4

so my 3 downstream are 9.7     22.6   35.7
if yours is similiarly I would be very interested to see your hlog, snrm and bitloading graphs if you can get them as your line appears based on your attenuation and supposed 80/20 estimate to be way under performing.

I would love to however these home hubs no longer support any of that level of stats or details.

« Last Edit: September 21, 2014, 10:12:43 AM by Roxy »
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: My FTTC woes and why I got an ECI OR modem
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2014, 10:27:40 AM »

FWIW, I'm around 1100m from my cabinet & the single DS attenuation value reported by the HG612 is 24.9dB.

This is this morning's pbParams data from my connection:-

Code: [Select]
xdslcmd info --pbParams
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 2
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 4131 Kbps, Downstream rate = 20868 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 4055 Kbps, Downstream rate = 21247 Kbps

Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (7,32) (871,1205) (1972,2782)
DS: (33,859) (1216,1961) (2793,3970)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (7,32) (871,1194)
DS: (33,859) (1216,1623)
  VDSL Port Details   Upstream   Downstream
Attainable Net Data Rate:      4131 kbps     20868 kbps
Actual Aggregate Tx Power:        6.9 dBm      12.3 dBm
====================================================================================
  VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 U4 D1 D2 D3
  Line Attenuation(dB): 8.3 55.7   N/A   N/A   N/A 22.1 68.5   N/A
Signal Attenuation(dB): 8.3 54.9   N/A   N/A   N/A 31.4 68.3   N/A
SNR Margin(dB): 6.4 6.4   N/A   N/A   N/A 6.1 6.0   N/A
TX Power(dBm): 0.6 5.8   N/A   N/A   N/A 11.4 5.1   N/A


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Chrysalis

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Re: My FTTC woes and why I got an ECI OR modem
« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2014, 11:16:07 AM »

yeah sorry I wasnt paying enough attention, mine is reported as 14.8db not 24.  So yeah the OP's line is way longer than 400m, I think nearer to a km.

Given BE has similar attenuation to you it would suggest your speed is reasonable if we assume he is a reasonable benchmark.

The question remains as to why you was estimated 80/20, the answer may be what Black Sheep said in another thread about DP's been long distance from properties in some areas.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2014, 11:18:09 AM by Chrysalis »
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kitz

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Re: My FTTC woes and why I got an ECI OR modem
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2014, 12:03:51 PM »

Hi Roxy.

Unfortunately, you're quite a way from myself and my network access doesn't stretch that far. However, if you wanted to, you could PM me your telephone number and address (with postcode), and I may be able to dig a little deeper for you in relation to true distance from Cab, etc.

I've done this for lots of our members, and Kitz would hopefully attest to this ?  :)

I can confirm that BS is bona fide and its ok to give him your details if you wish.
 
I will however say to anyone else reading this,  please only PM him details if the request is initiated by him.  I dont want the poor guy to be deluged and he may not always be able to help.  He reads most posts, so if he feels he may be able to help the invitation will normally come from BS himself.
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kitz

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Re: My FTTC woes and why I got an ECI OR modem
« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2014, 12:13:14 PM »

I would love to however these home hubs no longer support any of that level of stats or details.

Do you feel up to the task of unlocking a HG612?   These can often be obtained fairly cheaply on ebay and its a case of installing custom firmware on them.  They are much easier to hack than the ECI's  and theres a brief outline of what you need to do here http://www.kitz.co.uk/routers/hg612unlock.htm

If you want help such as just checking you are buying the right modem or which firmware to put on.. then just ask, theres plenty on here that know how to do it.   I would recommend that you open that as a separate thread though, just so details about your line fault and unlocking the modem dont get all mixed up together :)
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Roxy

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Re: My FTTC woes and why I got an ECI OR modem
« Reply #21 on: September 21, 2014, 02:49:54 PM »

yeah sorry I wasnt paying enough attention, mine is reported as 14.8db not 24.  So yeah the OP's line is way longer than 400m, I think nearer to a km.

Given BE has similar attenuation to you it would suggest your speed is reasonable if we assume he is a reasonable benchmark.

The question remains as to why you was estimated 80/20, the answer may be what Black Sheep said in another thread about DP's been long distance from properties in some areas.

It shouldn't be that much longer. I surmise there's an issue at the cabinet(Well we know there is, just not what type) that's contributing to increase cable loss and resulting in higher attenuation.

I was estimated the 80/20 profile because BT records had our fibre at the wrong cabinet.

I would love to however these home hubs no longer support any of that level of stats or details.

Do you feel up to the task of unlocking a HG612?   These can often be obtained fairly cheaply on ebay and its a case of installing custom firmware on them.  They are much easier to hack than the ECI's  and theres a brief outline of what you need to do here http://www.kitz.co.uk/routers/hg612unlock.htm

If you want help such as just checking you are buying the right modem or which firmware to put on.. then just ask, theres plenty on here that know how to do it.   I would recommend that you open that as a separate thread though, just so details about your line fault and unlocking the modem dont get all mixed up together :)

I all ready have a ECI OR modem on the way. If it turns out that having a dedicated modem helps keep the connection stable I might swap it for the 612.
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Black Sheep

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Re: My FTTC woes and why I got an ECI OR modem
« Reply #22 on: September 21, 2014, 04:00:49 PM »

Hi Roxy.

Unfortunately, you're quite a way from myself and my network access doesn't stretch that far. However, if you wanted to, you could PM me your telephone number and address (with postcode), and I may be able to dig a little deeper for you in relation to true distance from Cab, etc.

I've done this for lots of our members, and Kitz would hopefully attest to this ?  :)

I can confirm that BS is bona fide and its ok to give him your details if you wish.
 
I will however say to anyone else reading this,  please only PM him details if the request is initiated by him.  I dont want the poor guy to be deluged and he may not always be able to help.  He reads most posts, so if he feels he may be able to help the invitation will normally come from BS himself.

Thanks Kitz.  :)
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boost

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Re: My FTTC woes and why I got an ECI OR modem
« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2014, 08:51:00 AM »


I can confirm that BS is bona fide and its ok to give him your details if you wish.
 
I will however say to anyone else reading this,  please only PM him details if the request is initiated by him.  I dont want the poor guy to be deluged and he may not always be able to help.  He reads most posts, so if he feels he may be able to help the invitation will normally come from BS himself.

Does that mean I will have to stop putting 'Black Sheep' as my named engineer?
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Black Sheep

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Re: My FTTC woes and why I got an ECI OR modem
« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2014, 09:10:20 AM »

Ha ha ......  :blush: ;D
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boost

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Re: My FTTC woes and why I got an ECI OR modem
« Reply #25 on: September 22, 2014, 09:24:37 AM »

:D
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Roxy

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Re: My FTTC woes and why I got an ECI OR modem
« Reply #26 on: September 22, 2014, 06:27:38 PM »

Engineer came this morning, let's get the highlights and then you can read the rest in detail:

A) He did a line reset, resulting in the following stats :

6. Data rate:   7640 / 42046
7. Maximum data rate:   7673 / 42181
8. Noise margin:    6.0 / 5.9
9. Line attenuation:    0.0 / 24.7
10. Signal attenuation:    0.0 / 22.4

My Home Hub 5 downstream is rated at 41.06 and my real world throughput is 39.4 via HTTP testing. This is close to what I had on day two of my install.
Sadly, my ping is still 44 to the BT checker(was 20 before) and 25 to BBC.co.uk (was 15 before). Could I still be on interleaving?


B) The Ethernet run up to the master socket(BT installed this), has slight noise/errors on it, while the downstairs number two socket is super clean. It might be causing disconnects (whether that's due to the poor quality of the home hub 5 I can't tell at this time).I am looking to install OR modem tomorrow and just pray DLM doesn't kick in again before then.

It will be interesting to see what BT tech support say in regards to the 'fault' they saw on the line.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




I actually have a journal now because of all the notes I've taken in this on-going saga.

Monday 22/09/2014 : The engineer showed up and ... wow I don't even know if I can face writing about how dismal it was.

Right off the bat he had a poor attitude, clearly not interested, no passion for anything he was doing, not very sympathetic.

He went straight to fiddling with his tools on outside of the house. I tried to gauge his responsiveness and throw in to the conversation about the cabinet, and how that went over the weekend(remember I was told by BT/OR that this is THE GUY that started the repairs). He said he had not been to the cabinet, that he was not the same engineer and he couldn't tell us if any engineer had been to the cabinet or what fault might have been and how it could therefore affect our line, our neighbours line and determine what it might change about how he did his job today.

SUPER START!

He proceeded to hang around for twenty minutes, going in door and out, upstairs downstairs fiddling with the tool - not doing much of anything it seemed. At that point I had to run back to work. I got a call from him shortly afterwards and he says that he squeezed out 37 downstream and that's the best our property could get. 'Squeeze out?' He acts like he adjusted something, but he didn't do anything!
When I posed to him the question of 'how come it was 42 on our day of install, and how come our neighbours was at 50! (forgetting the contrast to my speed) he feigned ignorance saying 'speeds change.'
From here proceeded a back and forth tit for tat where I'd ask a legitimate question and he'd respond with a waffle of excuses that it sounds like he's used before.

Then he tells me 'oh by the way, the downstairs line is super clean but the upstairs connection has a few blips of errors - nothing to worry about, not that would affect the speed 'a lot.' It did however seem odd to him because the cat 5 shouldn't be acting up....

I then tried to plead our case and ask him to help while he was there, not let us face another disappointment.
So would he please :

-Check the neighbours real quick on the outside of the property. He said "I could, but I'm not obliged"
-Can you look at the Ethernet line and see if it was fixable or adjustable as it was BT who installed the master socket run. He said "no need."
-When asked him to go to the cabinet and see if our port was damaged, if there's any obvious issues or simply check the lines, it took several requests and only then begrudgingly he "might consider it."
-Would he do a Qual (??) test and try to give us a cable run distance from the cabinet. Yes he could, but "it wouldn't 'help' you in any way."

Next I queried about whether we're on interleave. He said 'oh ya, I didn't notice that earlier, let me run upstairs and reset that for you, I don't have to goto the cabinet'

I asked him one last time, TO GO TO THE CABINET and let us know what's going on. He actually came back!!! And said nothing is wrong.

I thought OR was sending me a BOOST engineer, whose job is to do everything they can to find faults, fix faults, improve conditions and make any recommendations, reports and analysis they can. And at a normal going rate of £130-£200 a time, you'd think they'd do that. How come I can't ever get one of those awesome knights that people rave about, that come around with a smile on their face and a real interest in making this better for you? Do they only exist on fabricated threads on BT's forums?



As for whatever is going on at the cabinet, I don't know. If he'd just given my a rough cable run read out then we'd know whether it's simply distance or not, that's causing my attenuation to be what I consider high.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2014, 06:34:48 PM by Roxy »
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burakkucat

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Re: My FTTC woes and why I got an ECI OR modem
« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2014, 08:47:41 PM »

How come I can't ever get one of those awesome knights that people rave about, that come around with a smile on their face and a real interest in making this better for you? Do they only exist on fabricated threads on BT's forums?

I assure you that they do exist . . . Black Sheep, for example and before he moved to the US of A, Ezzer:)
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Black Sheep

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Re: My FTTC woes and why I got an ECI OR modem
« Reply #28 on: September 22, 2014, 08:58:36 PM »

Thank you B*Cat. As I'm sat here typing this, I'm also in communication with an EU who is suffering from REIN issues. Spent a while earlier today showing her the 'KITZ REIN' site and explaining in layman's terms what it is etc, then took her for a drive to an area that has known REIN for her to listen to.

It is only prevalent between mid-evening and morning, and trying to get a PTO to attend site would be nightmare-ish. So, here I am assisting from a distance. TBH, I think she's cracked it .................. just awaiting another text to confirm ?
So, we are out there ....  ;) ;D

 
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Roxy

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Re: My FTTC woes and why I got an ECI OR modem
« Reply #29 on: September 24, 2014, 06:12:24 PM »

ECI modem here, going to wait to install it though. Max rate has dropped below current data rate, so don't want to reconnect at lower sync. I appreciate I'll lose any stats moving forward.


« Last Edit: September 24, 2014, 06:26:16 PM by Roxy »
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