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Author Topic: SSFP Mk 3  (Read 70080 times)

NewtronStar

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Re: SSFP Mk 3
« Reply #45 on: September 11, 2014, 09:18:24 PM »

Think it's not a band job as on the ferrite ring (toroid) the A & B windings look as if they have been insulated from each wind on the core, would need a close up with the camera using macro mode to see the fine detail.

& thanks B*CAT for taking the time to expose the difference between the two devices  :thumbs:
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Black Sheep

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Re: SSFP Mk 3
« Reply #46 on: September 11, 2014, 09:24:48 PM »

Concur, thanks for posting up the MK3, cat. Albeit rather a let-down ...... I wanted to see a warp-drive in there, or at least some dilithium crystals ??  ;) 
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burakkucat

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Re: SSFP Mk 3
« Reply #47 on: September 11, 2014, 09:39:08 PM »

I may be wrong but I suspect that is a bifilar winding on the torid.  :-\

If we think back to JGO's description of the mode of operation of an RF3 -- it rejects common-mode signals but passes differential-mode signals -- then the purpose of that torrid comes into focus.

Before anyone asks, the other side of each of the PCBs (the "wiring" tracks) are identical.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2014, 09:41:15 PM by burakkucat »
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NewtronStar

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Re: SSFP Mk 3
« Reply #48 on: September 11, 2014, 10:11:02 PM »

I may be wrong but I suspect that is a bifilar winding on the torid.  :-\

If we think back to JGO's description of the mode of operation of an RF3 -- it rejects common-mode signals but passes differential-mode signals -- then the purpose of that torrid comes into focus.

Before anyone asks, the other side of each of the PCBs (the "wiring" tracks) are identical.

Thats what the MK2 was supposed to do, but it does seem the windings on the MK2 where not rejecting the common-mode enough.

OK I am going to purchase one tomorrow if there is any left, though I am sure my line needs an Openreach Engineer with a JDSU to hand to make the MK3 work as intended.

As I have said in the past you won't know for certain until you try it out for yourself that's the best test around  :)
« Last Edit: September 11, 2014, 10:27:17 PM by NewtronStar »
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kitz

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Re: SSFP Mk 3
« Reply #49 on: September 12, 2014, 01:44:09 AM »

Thank you black cat for posting those images :)
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Black Sheep

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Re: SSFP Mk 3
« Reply #50 on: September 12, 2014, 07:27:01 AM »

Am visiting our 'Stores' today, shall see if they are available to us ??
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les-70

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Re: SSFP Mk 3
« Reply #51 on: September 12, 2014, 01:10:29 PM »

  I have abandoned testing the mark 3 due to another increase in cross-talk taking away the relevance of any new results c.f. the results to date.   I have 5 days of results prior to this change 2 days  with a Hg612 and 3 days  with a Billion 8800NL.  I also have in/out results twice for each modem. 

   Conclusion  HG612  --  nothing really significant - no sync speed impact - a tiny increase in attention of highest tones +0.4 in D3. Maybe a small error rate reduction.

  Conclusion 8800NL  -- A small increase in sync speed ~0.5 Mb/s - consistent with a improvement in D3 snrm.  Maybe a small error rate reduction.

  Nothing worth a fuss over.  I guess the difference in response between the HG612 and 8800NL maybe the internal circuits or the different chipsets and dsl drivers.

  Although the 8800NL gave a higher sync, by 3.5Mb/s, it also gave at least twice the error rate of the HG612.  An error rate difference also persisted with the sync speeds of both devices capped so to be identical!  In spite of a higher SNRM the 8800NL then still had about 40% greater error rates, with either the mark 3 or mark 2.  Maybe a bit less with the mark 3.

  I am leaving the Mark 3 in place if only for the reason that it is a bother to change it.

 

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Jasonkruys

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Re: SSFP Mk 3
« Reply #52 on: September 12, 2014, 04:55:51 PM »

The guys at BT Harrogate are aware of tge issue of the Mk3 SSFP so it is definitely legit issue.

Me thinks that you intended to paw out "issue of the Mk2 SSFP", as that is the device of which the Wizards of Grimbledon Down1 were tasked to "look again". The Wizards looked, changes were made and the Mk3 SSFP is the result.

Of course the Mk3 could, in turn, be lacking!  ::)

1Adastral Park

I think what was actually meant was "know about the release (issue/availability/sending out of/ insert preferred word here). Not that there is AN issue 😊
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Semmy

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Re: SSFP Mk 3
« Reply #53 on: September 12, 2014, 08:49:08 PM »

Yup! Unfortunately I was posting from a mobile device and made a pigs ear of the post!
« Last Edit: September 12, 2014, 10:12:36 PM by Semmy »
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Ronski

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Re: SSFP Mk 3
« Reply #54 on: September 13, 2014, 01:00:27 PM »

Fitted my Mk3 today at 12:30, my stats can be seen on MyDSLWebstats, slight increase in down sync and a drop in up, but then the attainable was lower on the up so that was expected.
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NewtronStar

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Re: SSFP Mk 3
« Reply #55 on: September 13, 2014, 09:42:49 PM »

Have not yet purchased the MK3 as of yet as I am 99.4% sure it's not going to cure my RFI issues in the evening, having said that I did install the BT80b RF3 back inplace last night to make some kind of judgement for the next evening RFI (to-day)

Yes the SNR at the higher tones have increased from 6dB to 12dB
And No the higher tones effected by the RFI still disappear in a large chunk with no Bits or SNR
used during the hours close to sunset and after.
Yes the errored seconds have gone down from 8.8 ES/hour to 0.92 using dslstats this may change the next day as it needs to see 24 hours worth to get an average.

Do I expect a miracle from the MK3 to fix this by the revised ferrite ring of course not  :D

« Last Edit: September 13, 2014, 10:57:26 PM by NewtronStar »
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les-70

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Re: SSFP Mk 3
« Reply #56 on: September 14, 2014, 09:28:47 AM »

Yes the SNR at the higher tones have increased from 6dB to 12dB
And No the higher tones effected by the RFI still disappear in a large chunk with no Bits or SNR
used during the hours close to sunset and after.
Yes the errored seconds have gone down from 8.8 ES/hour to 0.92 using dslstats this may change the next day as it needs to see 24 hours worth to get an average.

   That is a dramatic improvement especially in the errored seconds.  Assuming it is real over 24hours, I would be using an RF3 if it gave just a bit of that impact. I found not much impact on errors, just a big drop in attainable!.  I guess I may have the wrong sort of errors.
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neilius

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Re: SSFP Mk 3
« Reply #57 on: September 14, 2014, 10:26:44 AM »

Here's a macro shot of the new toroid for detailed perusal. :)
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Chrysalis

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Re: SSFP Mk 3
« Reply #58 on: September 14, 2014, 01:10:57 PM »

under 1 ES/hour is excellent. if you maintain that average.

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NewtronStar

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Re: SSFP Mk 3
« Reply #59 on: September 14, 2014, 04:29:33 PM »

Here's a macro shot of the new toroid for detailed perusal. :)

Thankyou very much neilius that's precisely the picture I was hoping to see, a lot more A & B windings on the toroid and also well insulated from each other.

under 1 ES/hour is excellent. if you maintain that average.

It has gone up to 10.3 ES/hour my average over 24 hours is 182 down and 46 up, It would be nice to experience fastpath on the DS the US is always using fastpath, if the MK3 could stop the attainable (max rate) fluctuating so much then I am sure the DS SNRM would become steady and that should result in lower errors.

MR BT80B RF3 in place and waiting for it's mate FFSP MK3  ;)
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