Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[NewtronStar]

Hello Kitz my head has been itchy all day and it's not fleas  I am having to re-think my FTTC setup here.

With the revelation that my FTTC is being feed by another larger exchange and don't know much about how this works  the image I have in my head the fibre cable comes from Bangor Exchange (4-5 miles from my premises) go's to a FTTC cabinet and use's some kind of pass through port to the next FTTC cabinet and so on until it reaches my FTTC cabinet Number (1) and then terminates into the PCP cabinet

Ok it gets tricky from here on 

So I take it my voice line from my premises go's to the PCP cab number 1 and then to my local exchange total of 1.14 miles, My voice and Broadband come from 2 different exchanges.

[kitz]

My voice and Broadband come from 2 different exchanges.

Yes you have the basic gist of it.

FTTC cabinet and use's some kind of pass through port to the next

The fibre optic run will be from Bangor, but no idea which route it will take.  Im assuming it was possibly easier to blow fibre through some existing ducts rather than take a new backhaul all the way to your own exchange.  Ive seen fibre being blown through existing u/g ducts a couple of times and it doesnt really take that long.  One of the stretches I saw being installed was approx a 3 mile run and it was done in a couple of hours.

In reality your setup wont be that different from normal fttc, other than the 2 exchanges involved.  The fttc cab will connect to the Bangor fibre run.  Your pcp will have the normal E-side back to your own exchange over which voice data will continue to traverse.  A tie cable will be used in-between the pcp and fttc cab.

[NewtronStar]

Cheers Kitz that is excellent info  sorry to be a pain in the arse here have a question.

We know my Voice is at the local exchange and Broadband comes from Bangor which is enabled for LLU and ADSL2+  services.

Though my Voice telephone number is pointing my premises to the local exchange, now if I want to go back to TalkTalk with FTTC their data base says I can't join them because my exchange is not LLU (local Loop unbundled) well yes the local exchange is not LLU but we can see I am getting my FTTC BroadBand from an other exchange that is LLU'd with TalkTalk active.

So is possible my Voice Telephone number is confusing Talktalks database as all they can see is the Telephone Number and postcode this will direct them to my voice exchange not the Broadband exchange ?

[kitz]

There's a few issues here.  Aside from you being one of the very few locations whereby fibre is installed piggybacking off a larger exchange.

1) in order for you to get talktalk fttc, then aside from the talktalk msan, talktalk must have a GEA fibre optic link in your exchange.  Even though some exchanges are Bt enabled for FTTC and the exchange is LLU, if TT  don't have the GEA link installed, then they aren't able to offer fttc to their customers.   It may be several months before TT get around to installing the GEA link and even then there's no guarantee that they will.  This is why some users move away from TT LLU and migrate to a BTw based ISP when fttc becomes available.  If you look on this forum there's been several people - including Eric - who have migrated back to a BTw based ISP in order to get fibre as soon as possible.

2. With LLU both phone and broadband goes via the TT kit in the exchange, I'm not sure because of the way their network is set up that it's possible to split between kthe exchanges like how bt has been able too.  I can't think of any way it could be done.

3.  TT are no longer interested in selling services from non LLU exchanges.  They won't accept new orders from users who aren't on an LLU exchange.  I could be wrong, since I can't search from this device to check, but i seem to recall that there was talk of TT selling off any of their users who were previously provisioned by ip stream. They're just not interested in non LLU anymore.

[NewtronStar]

I you Kitz you have answered more questions than I asked and all of your answers make sense this why your Website will always be my Number 1 Broadband Technical Support forum, think I have said that before ages ago and please let it go to your head it's well deserved.

It will take me a bit of time to understand this FTTC piggybacking off the larger exchange and as you said it should not effect the service I am getting it's just the next time I drive past my local exchange I'll be giving it my middle finger   

[kitz]

Youre very welcome.

[NewtronStar]

Have revised the distance as of to-day from the larger Bangor N.I exchange to my FTTC cabinet number 1 and it's route is a heck of a lot shorter than 4-5 miles as first thought, if the cable just follows the road all the way from exchange to my cab then it works out at 2.71 miles and convert that to meters = 4361.

or does it go all the way to my local exchange then I would need to add 0.49 miles to 2.71 which = 3.2 miles 

[kitz]

>> follows the road all the way ... it works out at 2.71 miles

I dont know which exchange as theres a few possibles, but if its the one Im thinking, then it makes sense why they piggy backed to Bangor as they will have had to duct fibre anyhow on that main road in between Belfast and Bangor.  From what you say, Im guessing you are likely south side of the A2...  and Im also guessing because of the route that those nearer the sea wont have vdsl.

With fttc the length of fibre between the exchanges (either your own or Bangor) doesnt matter.  Its the length of the copper which becomes attenuated.  Although in your case it will be going back to Bangor to terminate on the OLT there.     

[NewtronStar]

Its the length of the copper which becomes attenuated.  Although in your case it will be going back to Bangor to terminate on the OLT there.     

Yeap it's the copper that does all the damage. hope you don't mind have made a map of the route which I think the ducted fibre takes from NIBA to my FTTC cab 1 (yellow and red points) and my local exchange NIHB to my FTTC cab 1 (blue)

PS reduced the image quality size to keep the file small (1MB to 39.4KB) 

[kitz]

oops I guessed the right exchange, but was a bit out with your location

You are actually nearer your own exchange than I first thought.  Yes your image would show the most logical route in that your broadband will go via the yellow/red and voice via the blue.    Out of interest are the properties nearer the sea at say The Fort/Old Fort able to get fttc.    I wonder how far they took the fibre, or if you were lucky and they just continued down the B20.

[NewtronStar]

oops I guessed the right exchange, but was a bit out with your location

have to say you were kind of close.

Out of interest are the properties nearer the sea at say The Fort/Old Fort able to get fttc.

I am not that posh to know people on the old fort road but there is a FTTC cab which seems to serve premises on the church road and at the bottom thats quite close to the sea.

[kitz]

Interesting... so it would appear they are piggybacking the whole area to Bangor then - even those whose fibre run would virtually pass your own exchange. 
I wonder if in view of the relatively small amount of subscriber lines it wasnt economically viable to install 21cn equipment and backhaul upgrade..  and they thought if anyone wants extra speeds they will have to get fttc...  but hey this is BT, so who knows what they thought

[WWWombat]

your D1 looks unusual, trying to figure out where your adsl power cutback is, it weakens up to about tone 500 then jumps up again suggesting a possible power cutback at upper limit of adsl2+ range, but I am guessing you quite far from the exchange so that would be unusual,

Does look rather strange, the longer lines are meant to have less PCB.
...
It just wouldnt make sense to me to PCB a long line up to tone 500.

As far as I am aware, the PSD mask chosen for the cabinet is based only on the distance between cabinet and exchange. The remaining length of the line to the customer doesn't matter - so all lines on the cabinet get the same PSD mask.

If the cabinet is fairly close to the exchange (as this one seems to be) it will get a mask that goes up to tone 512 (because ADSL2+ tones will still be usable that close), but will cut the power by a lesser amount (because the ADSL2+ signals won't have attenuated by much). This would be the mask for CAL=10 in the ANFP.

If the cabinet is further from the exchange, then the higher ADSL2+ frequencies won't get through that far, but those that do will be attenuated more. To cope with this, the PSD mask alters by cutting power in a more extreme way, but then allows VDSL2 to use full power again at a lesser frequency.

The rules for setting the mask come from NICC's ANFP; I don't recall any special exclusions that allow a mask to be "reduced" if the exchange in question doesn't (currently) support ADSL2+. It ought to be feasible, but it obviously adds to the admin work if/when someone brings ADSL2+ to the exchange; and you'd have to explain to everyone why their current FTTC service lost 5Mbps

I wonder if in view of the relatively small amount of subscriber lines it wasnt economically viable to install 21cn equipment and backhaul upgrade..

In the long game, with copper being retired eventually, you'd imagine that the small exchanges (and their buildings) are no longer needed. Fewer exchange buildings are needed to host the head-end equipment, as the fibre signal can go a lot further than copper (20-30km vs 6km?)

I thought quite a lot of exchanges were affected by this kind of thinking; certainly my original FTTC exchange (Brookwood, Surrey) got FTTC quite a while before it became 21CN, so it must have been a child to somewhere - Woking or Guildford presumably.

[NewtronStar]

I thought quite a lot of exchanges were affected by this kind of thinking; certainly my original FTTC exchange (Brookwood, Surrey) got FTTC quite a while before it became 21CN, so it must have been a child to somewhere - Woking or Guildford presumably.

It's has all become clearer to me that my local exchange must be to small for upgades and it can only provide E-side voice and ADSL & ADSL MAX, always remember blaming Talktalk years ago for not spending the extra cash and giving me LLU at my exchange but it would seem the blame lies with BT for not upgrading the exchange and never will be, the last one was in 2003 for ADSL max 

Heah Ho if it was not for this forum I would be still be left in the dark.