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Author Topic: Admin on a bridged router.  (Read 5352 times)

Bodge99

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Admin on a bridged router.
« on: August 14, 2014, 12:28:28 AM »

Hello All.

I'm preparing to upgrade to FTTC and have been revamping my home network somewhat.

I've only ever used a single router as (up to now) 4 hardwired and wireless have been enough for my needs. I'm currently on ADSL until Monday, then FTTC (YAY!!)

Anyway, I've bought a HG612 with a view to using it with my Billion 7800N and a cheapo  EP-WR2603D (4 port + wireless AP).

A bit of reading up left me with some confusion as to exactly how to connect everything up.
Various information sources gave conflicting advice (ports, subnets etc).

My requirements:
1. Have as many free ports on each router as possible.
2. Everything on the same subnet if possible. (Lots of file shifting here!)
3. Gigabit where possible. (To future proof.)
4. Access to all router admin pages (from any device) without extra cabling or having to make any interface setting changes.
5. Full access (from any device that supports it) for line monitoring purposes.

The HG612 is normally used in modem mode.The BB connection is then controlled from the secondary router. I don't want this. I want more flexibility...

What I have is this: The HG612 is unlocked and is used in router mode. Both network ports are bound and fully available.

HG612 Lan1 port is connected to the WAN port of the 7800N. The 4 ports are connected to the house network. The 7800N is in bridge mode with its admin page IP address set to the same subnet as the HG612.

HG612 Lan2 port will be connected to the WAN port of the EP-WR2603D (work in progress). As above, admin IP address is on the same subnet as the HG612.

The HG612 handles all DHCP etc. (disabled elsewhere).

Everything is working great so far. Playing with this even led me to a fix for a problem that I've been having on a linux laptop (using samba to access windows boxes)...

Any use for anyone??

Bodge99
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burakkucat

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Re: Admin on a bridged router.
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2014, 01:21:02 AM »

I will certainly be interested to know how you get on once you have the VDSL2 service activated.  :-\

Knowing that a tagged VAN (101) is used between the cabinet DSLAM/MSAN & the HG612 and a PPPoE session with your ISP/CP runs on top of that tagged VLAN, I am having a problem in understanding how you will be able to transfer your current ADSL2+ hardware configuration to that required with the new VDSL2 service.
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kitzuser87430

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Re: Admin on a bridged router.
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2014, 09:44:04 AM »

Quote
Lan1 port is connected to the WAN port

Quote
HG612 Lan2 port will be connected to the WAN port


Does this method introduce problems (double NAT)?

An old Linksys WRT54GL of mine on dd-wrt firmwear had the option to add the wan port to the lan switch

"Assign WAN Port to Switch"

This then creates a 5 port switch ....perfect.

Quote
Everything is working great so far.

Must be OK then, as long as every device can access internet/local shares without problems.

Ian
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Bodge99

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Re: Admin on a bridged router.
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2014, 11:24:47 PM »

Hello All

Update:

I had a few problems today, my ADSL went down at lunchtime and I couldn't get service. Line would sync but would not authenticate.

I rang my ISP support after a couple of hours to find that they had changed my login password and not told me beforehand.. ho hum.

This allowed me some time to play with the EP-WR2603D (4 port + wireless AP).

Now this is connected as follows: (slight change in plans.. they might change again.)

Router 1 (HG612 connecting to BB) Lan1 > WAN port on router 2 (7800N).
Lan1 on router 2 > WAN port on router 3 (EP-WR2603D).

Initally, a laptop connected to router 3 via wireless could access the internet and all 3 router status pages but could not see anything connected to routers 1 or 2. (I understand that this is "normal"?? and a lan port to lan port connection between routers is "required"??)

I solved this by changing the wan access type on router 3 to "static IP mode" (still with the router in bridge mode). I also set the wan IP address (not the lan IP address) to an unused one.
The default gateway here points to router 1.

The laptop (on router 3) can now see (ping) anything connected to router 2.
Anything on router 2 can see anything on router 3.
Throughput tests indicate that everything is rock solid so far.

Further testing is still required from router 1.. I'll report progress if anyone is interested.

Comments appreciated.

BTW, NAT, DCHP et. al. are disabled on routers 2 and 3.

Bodge99.


« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 11:36:44 PM by Bodge99 »
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kitzuser87430

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Re: Admin on a bridged router.
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2014, 08:15:17 AM »

Hi

Great all working... hope it still works when vdsl activated.

Ian
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Bodge99

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Re: Admin on a bridged router.
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2014, 10:10:44 PM »

Hello All.

Further update.

I've now fully tested the network. I'm very pleased to report that everything is working exactly as I hoped.

Anything connected to any of the 3 routers can see and fully access (rights permitting, obviously) anything connected anywhere else. Throughput tests and latency’s etc. are excellent... I'm very pleased.

Now waiting for BT on Monday..

Bodge99.
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Bodge99

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Re: Admin on a bridged router.
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2014, 02:58:30 PM »

Hello All.

Further update.

VDSL2 is now working.. getting around 69800 down and 19200 up.

I had a problem with the unlocked HG612..
The line would sync and authenticate and then drop out after a couple of minutes.
I think that I've got a problem with this router (bought used from Ebay).

As the rest of the household were champing at the bit to get online, I've "dropped back" to a standard install (using the supplied locked HG612 for now).

I've got another used HG612, so I'll try again when I can (hopefully in the morning).

More soon.

Bodge99
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Bodge99

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Re: Admin on a bridged router.
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2014, 07:02:56 AM »

Hello All.

Update:

Had a bad night last night. I couldn't sleep so I got up at 2:30.

Time to play:

Total success!! VDSL now working on the first HG612. I opened this one up and found a dry joint on an electrolytic capacitor (on the 12V rail).

I'm now getting 69850 down and 20000 up.

A brief description of my network layout and my reasons for doing it this way (further slight changes have been made from those described above):

The HG612 is connected to the phone line. The unlocked HG612 can be used on ADSL as well as VDSL. In modem mode (as used when crippled by BT), login etc. is handled from another device (router or computer etc.) further downstream.

In router mode, the HG612 handles login etc. and the two lan ports are available for network use. I'm now using the lan1 port for router 2 (7800N) and lan2 for router 3 (EP-WR2603D). 

The Billion 7800N is configured in bridge mode. Connecting the HG612 lan1 port to the WAN port here gives me what is effectively (nearly) a 4 port managed switch with a wireless AP. The 7800N Lan1 is used for a PC in this room (actually the front upstairs bedroom. This will become my workroom/mancave)..
Lan2 - lan4 are connected to the house wiring. (new cat6 cabling to the other bedrooms.)
 
The Edup EP-WR2603D (Ebay purchase, under £20 from China) is a 4 port router with a wireless N AP. I bought this as an experiment to improve wireless performance in my downstairs front room. I've installed a lot of foil backed insulation in the walls and ceiling here, so wireless speeds attainable from the 7800N (upstairs) are somewhat reduced.

The router is again in bridged mode, so is again effectively a managed 4 port switch with wireless AP. The connection from router 1 (HG612) is made to the WAN port here. This leaves the 4 lan ports fully available (for TV, media server PC and satellite hardware).

Wireless is configured on the EP-WR2603D on a different SSID so I have some sort of fallback capability (for the laptops used here) if either the EP-WR2603D or the 7800N have to be taken down for any reason.

I have fulfilled every requirement on my original wishlist (see the first post) so am therefore a very happy bunny.

Comments appreciated.

Bodge99.
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kitz

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Re: Admin on a bridged router.
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2014, 04:20:31 PM »

Glad you got it sorted :)
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tickmike

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Re: Admin on a bridged router.
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2014, 08:46:43 PM »

Any use of the 'Wan' port will introduce Double NATting and you will be on a sub-net for that part of the Lan.

 I my case ADSL>Router (NAT turned off ) >Hard-ware Firewall (NATted) >LAN with four old routers used as WiFi Access points also some Desktops plugged into the Lan .

No use of Any 'WAN 'ports.

I can see any admin pages though a Browser on any part.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2014, 08:51:15 PM by tickmike »
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BT ADSL2 (G992.3) line>HG612 set as a Modem, Bridge, WAN not Bound to LAN1 or 2 >Smoothwall (Hardware Firewall and routing) > Ethernet LAN, DMZ,WiFI LAN and Spare LAN .
DSLstats LAN2  linked Ethernet

Bodge99

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Re: Admin on a bridged router.
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2014, 12:05:06 AM »

Hello,

Err.. No double NATing here and every device **is** on the same subnet. I have full transparency across the network. You are describing routers used as switches... Yes, this is the recommended method of connecting up but is not the only way that will work.

I know how a WAN port is **supposed** to work, but I've found that most domestic grade kit can actually be used in this way.. freeing up an extra LAN port on each device. As with everything in life, your mileage will vary.

I've now started looking at various firmwares at code level. I'm currently playing with a spare Billion 7800n (changing the mini-PCI wireless card for something more stable. The supposed "failed" wireless card in this one was caused by flash settings corruption. [I think that I've found a stack overflow that causes this...])

Also playing with a Home Hub 3.0a (looking at implementing wireless repeater/bridging functionality). Having some (very slow) success. Currently have managed to enable the unit in discovery mode as a prerequisite for wireless bridging. 

It would appear that only a subset of the SOC's full functionality is actually used in a particular router.. The functionality that **is** used/enabled sometimes seems to also allow some further "undocumented" functionality.. I think that the WAN port (used as a network uplink) usage on **some** kit might be due to this.

Bodge99
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Bodge99

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Re: Admin on a bridged router.
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2014, 02:32:57 PM »

Hello All.

Update:

Just in case anyone is interested in how things are progressing with this one:

I've replaced the EP-WR2603D (placed in the downstairs front room). This feeds the TV, media server PC, satellite hardware and a few laptops that are used here. I've replaced it with a Dlink D615 running DD-WRT firmware.

The only reason for the change is that I wanted WOL (wakeup on LAN) functionality for various devices operable from this router.

The network has been 100% rock solid, as has the unlocked HG612 (used in router mode). Uptime is measured in weeks.. I've had a couple of early morning resets which I've put down to BT cabinet updates.

The only problem I'm having is with slightly reduced speeds with VDSL2. I'm currently getting just under 60000 down 20000 up.
This is lower than the 78000+ that I should be getting..

I know exactly what the problem is.. It's just that illness in the house has not let me complete the home rewiring yet.

Some of the internal telephone cabling (not yet renewed) is picking up interference. Most of this is from LED lighting with a lesser amount coming from a couple of switched mode power supplies. I had proved this earlier whilst on ADSL.
Disconnecting the internal 'phone wiring at the NTE5a allows the HG612 to sync at 78000+.

I do have an Openreach NTE5a and a Mk2 VDSL faceplate. A temporary connection made with the new 'phone cabling causes no speed reduction so I think that I can safely say that induced rfi/emi on the telephone cabling side can cause problems.

Has anyone else seen this??

Bodge99
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Bodge99

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Re: Admin on a bridged router.
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2015, 11:21:07 AM »

Hello All..

Further update..

SWMBO has to go into hospital shortly, so I thought it would be a good idea to finish the 'phone and network rewire.

I'm currently getting 79987 down and 20000 up, so I must be doing something right!

Bodge99
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LBUK

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Re: Admin on a bridged router.
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2015, 07:28:43 PM »

How you getting on? Very interested in this setup  :P
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