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Author Topic: BT Fibre vs Plusnet Fibre  (Read 18953 times)

tommy45

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Re: BT Fibre vs Plusnet Fibre
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2014, 08:23:33 PM »

One difference between Plusnet and other BTW based ISP's  is that plusnet use an additional  internal IP profile they apparently need this for their traffic shaping DPI systems that are used to (as they call it in their sales blurb) prioritize traffic , this however results in a slower throughput level for plusnet customers  of around 2-3mbps (FTTC 80/20)when compared to other isp's  even when my plusnet  IP profile is set to the max of 78mbps  my throughput is still 1- 1.5mbps shy of what other customers on the same products syncing at the max rate with a max BTW IP profile  of 77.42 or 77.44mbps achieve when performing speedtests or downloading files  my throughput will peak initially at around 74.5-75.2mbps then back off  down to around 73.5 ish  So IMO it's being restricted so matter how they want to dress it up their playing with traffic results in a lower throughput

Routing / peering  That seems to be one of BT  and Plusnets weakest links in particular when it comes to peering to the USA or certain parts of it canada being higher latency than some other ISP's offer, they plusnet seem to be over reliant on using level 3 peering which in the past has been found to offer cack handed routing  like routing around several European countries before returning to the uk before transiting to the usa whilst plusnet may not have direct control & BT  are paymaster it would seem
even some of their peering in the uk  does suffer peak time latency humps  such as to steampowered.com


« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 08:33:12 PM by tommy45 »
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renluop

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Re: BT Fibre vs Plusnet Fibre
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2014, 11:12:23 PM »

Interesting

Source of your info; links?
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tommy45

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Re: BT Fibre vs Plusnet Fibre
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2014, 11:58:23 PM »

BT own Plusnet therefore hold the purse strings hence why Plusnet have no real choice in the matter RE peering
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kitz

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Re: BT Fibre vs Plusnet Fibre
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2014, 12:48:43 AM »

Hmmm.  I'm not so sure it's to do with traffic shaping.

The traffic shaping and PN profiles are independent.   Removal of PN profile used to be called the magic button and removal of any traffic shaping is god profile.

However there is an element of truth in that the PN profile limits the max throughput of 80/20, but I suspect it's more to do with tcpip overheads. I've mentioned this subject on here a couple of times but it's something I really don't have time to do for the sake of a tiny bit more speed.

But if you want the basics it's to do with say if your ip profile is 4000, then you bras atm bit rate profile set at the RAS would be 4096.  This was something I was aware of back in the days of max dsl which affected anyone syncing at 8128... So PN could hit 'the magic button' and you'd get an 8128 pn profile.  James would do this for anyone who asked.  I'm not sure what happened with adsl2+ but I'm not aware of similar for top rate adsl2+ ..  And obviously similar with vdsl.

I can fully understand why PN have the PN profile - again I stress this is independant from any traffic shaping profile.  It's used to stop surplus traffic passing through the MSILs in the same way that bt say the ip profiles stops traffic being dropped at the exchange.    However it would be far better if it related to the line rate rather than ip profile.

Agree with you re L3.   It didn't used to be like that. 
However I think you may mean transit rather than peering.  They do sort their own peering.. It's in their interests to peer with any reasonable request. In fact I think PN users of this forum will have seen this actioned in less than a week of a request being submitted.
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tommy45

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Re: BT Fibre vs Plusnet Fibre
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2014, 01:44:34 AM »

Well Late last year latency to Ubisoft master servers that their games use to authenticate as well as for game data  went from a respectable 90ms to 120ms  later this reduced to 105-110ms due to a  peering change  by AS6453.net Other ISP's like Zen don't use level 3 peering to ubisoft , they peer directly with Tinet  the only other peering provider used by ubisoft ,  Plusnet  tried  to route via tinet  by changing the preference with Level 3
but because they don't have direct peering with tinet it had to go via level 3, who routed traffic in a cack handed way going via Paris adding to the base latency so that it made little difference, their only other alternative was to route traffic via BT , which going by several tracerts from their customer base  would result have resulted  in a even higher latency  due to the way traffic is bounced around lots of internal hops prior to it actually reaching the internet, The same situation exists today, they changed nothing  IMO one of the reasons  that plusnet don't peer directly with Tinet ect is probably cost, and another is BT  saying no,
But compared to some other isp's their peering is weak , easynet  when i was with ukonline, had the best peering routing  by far, the best I've experienced in the past 7-8yrs of having a broadband service , Be Unlimited peering and their laggy wholesale service via entanet  sucked too
« Last Edit: August 16, 2014, 01:48:44 AM by tommy45 »
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loonylion

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Re: BT Fibre vs Plusnet Fibre
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2014, 12:01:59 PM »

I used to be on tinet and they took me on a grand tour of Europe for every connection.
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tommy45

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Re: BT Fibre vs Plusnet Fibre
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2014, 08:33:07 PM »

Peering quality will be dependant on what the ISP is prepared to pay for, such things like the amount of bandwidth as well as route preference will always play a part, tinet via zen  offers a lower latency than the likes of BT and and Plusnet to ubisoft  Because they don't have a peering agreement with tinet  they have to go via Level 3 who have some of the most backward routing preferences known
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kitz

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Re: BT Fibre vs Plusnet Fibre
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2014, 11:04:04 PM »

eke  @  Ubisoft/Tinet/L3.   I do recall something about that a few months ago..  although I cant remember exactly what it was now.  Wasnt it the Ubisoft /Tinet peering that was borked?

Edit to add
.. found this...  still dont know what the issue was, but also just found a post on TBB too, which you were involved in, so you will likely know far more about it than me. :)
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tommy45

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Re: BT Fibre vs Plusnet Fibre
« Reply #23 on: August 18, 2014, 06:26:13 PM »

Basically yes (1st link) But it wasn't tinet peering to blame, it was down to plusnet's peering agreements or lack of, Because they have to peer via level 3  this increased the latency  due to level 3's indirect somewhat questionable routing, Which in turn will biol down to cost, Latency used to be a lot lower to ubisoft , and was never above 95ms  for me regardless of ISP  for months now  it has been 110ms or higher,
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Geekofbroadband

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Re: BT Fibre vs Plusnet Fibre
« Reply #24 on: September 02, 2014, 01:02:16 AM »

So in Plusnet Unlimited Fibre 80/20 truly unlimited as in P2P is complelty unlimited as it's not throttled like BT Infinity 2? Would my friend see any difference if he went from BT Inifnity 2 to plus net unlimited fibre 80/20,
« Last Edit: September 06, 2014, 11:04:07 PM by Geekofbroadband »
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boost

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Re: BT Fibre vs Plusnet Fibre
« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2014, 09:20:52 AM »

One difference between Plusnet and other BTW based ISP's  is that plusnet use an additional  internal IP profile they apparently need this for their traffic shaping DPI systems that are used to (as they call it in their sales blurb) prioritize traffic , this however results in a slower throughput level for plusnet customers  of around 2-3mbps (FTTC 80/20)when compared to other isp's  even when my plusnet  IP profile is set to the max of 78mbps  my throughput is still 1- 1.5mbps shy of what other customers on the same products syncing at the max rate with a max BTW IP profile  of 77.42 or 77.44mbps achieve when performing speedtests or downloading files  my throughput will peak initially at around 74.5-75.2mbps then back off  down to around 73.5 ish  So IMO it's being restricted so matter how they want to dress it up their playing with traffic results in a lower throughput

Routing / peering  That seems to be one of BT  and Plusnets weakest links in particular when it comes to peering to the USA or certain parts of it canada being higher latency than some other ISP's offer, they plusnet seem to be over reliant on using level 3 peering which in the past has been found to offer cack handed routing  like routing around several European countries before returning to the uk before transiting to the usa whilst plusnet may not have direct control & BT  are paymaster it would seem
even some of their peering in the uk  does suffer peak time latency humps  such as to steampowered.com

Interesting. Are you a gamer?

Who, currently, has the lowest latency into Europe / Sweden etc, in your opinion? Or anyone elses opinion on here :)

My only experience so far is Sky FTTC which appears to be OK and a native BT FTTC install which I will ignore because it was interleaved from day one and I didn't play any games on it anyway :D I don't play on any US servers though, typically UK and 'Europe' which usually appears to be Germany.
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loonylion

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Re: BT Fibre vs Plusnet Fibre
« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2014, 11:16:01 AM »

So in Plusnet Unlimited Fibre 80/20 truly unlimited as in P2P is complelty unlimited as it's not throttled like BT Infinity 2? Would I see any difference if I went from BT Inifnity 2 to plus net unlimited fibre 80/20,

IIRC traffic is prioritised, not throttled. P2P will get a lower priority than most other stuff. I don't think theres a hard cap on how much bandwidth it can use.
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boost

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Re: BT Fibre vs Plusnet Fibre
« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2014, 12:05:17 PM »

Peaking and settling lower does sound like it's being policed. It could be argued the very essence of prioritisation is to shape/police/taildrop lower priority stuff?

TCP will resend anyway but RTP streams and gaming traffic don't have this luxury nor would it work if they did, I suppose :)
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loonylion

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Re: BT Fibre vs Plusnet Fibre
« Reply #28 on: September 02, 2014, 12:19:50 PM »

What I'm trying to say is, they're not saying P2P can have nKB/s of bandwidth and no more (throttling). They're saying that P2P can use the bandwidth that's available, BUT it will have to defer to more important streams (prioritisation). if nothing else needs the bandwidth then the P2P can have it, but if someone starts streaming a video or playing an online game or making a skype call, the P2P will have to wait its turn. Kind of like waiting in a queue, the more important people or the people who have paid more get to queue jump. P2P is always economy class.
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Geekofbroadband

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Re: BT Fibre vs Plusnet Fibre
« Reply #29 on: September 02, 2014, 03:52:13 PM »

Does anyone know how to set the NETGEAR R7000 up with Plusnet I take it you will have to put in and user name and password?
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