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Author Topic: 80/20 to 40/20 with Plusnet  (Read 9613 times)

les-70

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Re: 80/20 to 40/20 with Plusnet
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2014, 08:28:51 PM »

  I have run with a speed limit for some time.  I have usually aimed for 9db snrm.  This gives me a reduction of crc's and es of about a factor of 3.  A speed drop raising the snrm from 6 to 9 would about 16mb/s at an initial 80mb/s attainable or about  8Mb/s with an attainable of about 40Mb/s. 

A capped speed will also avoid too high a sync occurring when noise or cross talk is low, this is important on my line which has wide variations in attainable when neighbours switch on and off.

Depending on your usual error rates a more moderate sync may suffice.  Why not just try 40 downstream for starters.  For upstream you can leave it at 20 and let it do its own thing.


 
« Last Edit: July 04, 2014, 07:44:50 AM by les-70 »
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Ixel

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Re: 80/20 to 40/20 with Plusnet
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2014, 08:59:48 PM »

Thanks mate :)

I'm probably going to give DLM another month or two on my line (it's had 3 weeks so far, 1.5-2 Weeks stable) to see if it removes my interleaving, but looking at the SNRM and error counts above, I doubt it will remove it?

The reason I'm looking at doing it is because by lowering package, I'll save 5 p/m, and 30 over the length of the contract, as I got the 6 months introductory at 9.99 offer. I'd only lose 3-8 Mbps of speed, and considering that most of my downloading is done when I'm not at the house or asleep (it's automatic via RSS feed) I would consider that real-time performance is more important to me for browsing and gaming. It's not like a 38Mbps sync would be slow either :)

It's going to be better for browsing/gaming having a sync speed of say 38Mbps, pings of 14ms & no interleaving rather than having 46Mbps sync and 22-24ms pings, with interleaving right? Or am I not likely to notice much of a difference?

Kitz & Ixel - by lowering your sync speed, did you aim for a set SNRM, and if so, what SNRM did you aim for? Would 6dB be enough, or would you suspect I have to higher?

In my view, from my own hardcore gamer's perspective, I do feel a slight difference when interleaving is on. Some people may say it's in the head, but I personally don't feel it is.

I didn't aim for a particular SNRM, but I did aim to increase it in order to reduce the error seconds. However, I don't use the HG612 unless it's purely for diagnostics reasons. The cabinet I'm connected to is an ECI, and the ECI /r seems to work quite well with it (no interleaving, full 80/20 sync).

Just try to avoid reducing your sync too much. I say this because when I reduced mine from an attainable of 80Mbps downstream, all the way down to just less than 40Mbps downstream, after DLM removed interleaving it left me on a banded profile of 60/20 (min 30Mbps, max 60Mbps).
« Last Edit: July 03, 2014, 09:03:59 PM by Ixel »
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xreyuk

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Re: 80/20 to 40/20 with Plusnet
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2014, 09:37:45 PM »

Thanks for the input guys.

I did have another thread when I was synced at about 43.2Mbps and SNRM was 6.9dB then, so I might try 42/42.5 first, and see how that goes.

As I say, I'll revisit this in a month, as I'll probably give my line some time with DLM at first before messing around with it.

My latest errors are in the first post at the top of this thread, and my first initial post with stats is here

Code: [Select]
# xdslcmd info --pbParams
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 12087 Kbps, Downstream rate = 51204 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 11999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 43225 Kbps

Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (7,32) (871,1205) (1972,2782)
DS: (33,859) (1216,1961) (2793,3970)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (7,32) (871,1205) (1972,2644)
DS: (33,859) (1216,1961) (2793,3408)
  VDSL Port Details    Upstream    Downstream
Attainable Net Data Rate:      12087 kbps      51204 kbps
Actual Aggregate Tx Power:         7.0 dBm       12.6 dBm
====================================================================================
     VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3   U4 D1 D2 D3
  Line Attenuation(dB): 6.9 35.5 53.5    N/A    N/A 16.8 43.6 67.8
 Signal Attenuation(dB): 6.9 34.6 51.9    N/A    N/A 25.0 43.2 68.6
SNR Margin(dB): 6.0 6.1 6.1    N/A    N/A 6.9 6.9 6.9
TX Power(dBm): 0.0 -7.4 5.6    N/A    N/A 9.9 7.8 3.8
 # xdslcmd info --show
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 12080 Kbps, Downstream rate = 51204 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 11999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 43225 Kbps

Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 6.9 6.1
Attn(dB): 22.1 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 12.6 7.0
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: 18 58
B: 51 237
M: 1 1
T: 64 33
R: 12 16
S: 0.0383 0.6297
L: 13376 3227
D: 845 1
I: 64 127
N: 64 254
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 28076340 186790
OHFErr: 99 86
RS: 2892472767 512583
RSCorr: 173669247 1238
RSUnCorr: 4616 0

Bearer 0
HEC: 1032 0
OCD: 37 0
LCD: 37 0
Total Cells: 1444066954 0
Data Cells: 5740135 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 27 90
SES: 0 0
UAS: 24 24
AS: 69050

Bearer 0
INP: 3.00 0.00
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 8 0
PER: 2.45 10.43
OR: 78.07 49.08
AgR: 43302.84 12047.83

Bitswap: 33243/33243 12011/12011



That sound like a good plan?
« Last Edit: July 03, 2014, 09:40:19 PM by xreyuk »
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NewtronStar

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Re: 80/20 to 40/20 with Plusnet
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2014, 10:12:30 PM »

I do hope you will keep us informed if you decide to go down the forced cap as all information is very welcome.
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burakkucat

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Re: 80/20 to 40/20 with Plusnet
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2014, 10:50:48 PM »

I do hope you will keep us informed if you decide to go down the forced cap as all information is very welcome.

The kuro neko echoes N*Star's statement. It is an interesting subject and one that was, to me, initially not at all obvious.  :)
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xreyuk

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Re: 80/20 to 40/20 with Plusnet
« Reply #20 on: July 04, 2014, 12:55:40 AM »

I will do, I'll revive the threa
I do hope you will keep us informed if you decide to go down the forced cap as all information is very welcome.

Of course, I know everyone is trying to find ways to mess about with DLM :)

I'll revive the thread if I decide to down the route of capping :)
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les-70

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Re: 80/20 to 40/20 with Plusnet
« Reply #21 on: July 04, 2014, 07:57:26 AM »

  If you cap at about 42 that will only give a small error reduction but when/if the interleaving is removed that cap at 42 would then have a snrm of about 9-10 and you may welll then stay on fast path.  A lower cap at about 36 should give a significant error reduction.  If you start with 36 and give it a chance to get to fast path you will be likely to keep on fast path if you then set to 42 after it has achieved fast path.
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xreyuk

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Re: 80/20 to 40/20 with Plusnet
« Reply #22 on: July 04, 2014, 11:07:01 AM »

Thanks Les.

So you think I should go a bit lower, then when/if fast path is enabled, raise the sync speed slightly, but only to a level where we think fast path will stay enabled?

I also meant to ask, does this command need re-entering if the DSL goes down, or the router is rebooted? If so, is it worth me putting the command in DSLStats?
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les-70

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Re: 80/20 to 40/20 with Plusnet
« Reply #23 on: July 04, 2014, 01:04:24 PM »

   Those would be my choices.  My cap to get a roughly 9db snrm corresponds to a sync almost identical to that which interleaving would give me.

   You only need reapply the cap if the modem does a full reboot as with a power off/on.  It is not needed again if just a resync occurs either though severe errors or the DLM.

   I had trouble with putting the command in dslstats - the trouble was almost certainly to do with coming out of standby when, on rare occasions dslstats mistakenly thought the sync to be down.  I disable vdsl in the gui so the command needed is e.g. xdslcmd configure --mod v  --maxDataRate 68040 20000 100000 where the --mod v enables vdsl. This approach ensures no sync occurs until the command is given.  I have not retried dslstats lately, you could try adding in a harmless command like xdslcmd info --linediag and then check whether you find any resulting output in the display or if you select it, the event log.  If you don't get any output after a few days it should be safe to use dslstats.  Out of interest I am going to do that myself.
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xreyuk

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Re: 80/20 to 40/20 with Plusnet
« Reply #24 on: July 04, 2014, 10:53:23 PM »

My DSL stats will always be running on a server, so coming out of standby wouldn't be a problem, however, I may come back to this thread for some advice when I actually implement it :).
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xreyuk

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Re: 80/20 to 40/20 with Plusnet
« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2014, 11:35:20 AM »

Just a quick question for the guys who've tried it.

How successful has it been?

I'm asking because I've called Plusnet to see about the possibility of downgrading to the 40/20 package they offer, because I was going to buy this service, and then limit the sync using the above commands.

When I signed up I was given the top fibre package for 19.99 p/m but with 6 months half price, so the total price of the 18 month contract is 299.82.

They are willing to let me downgrade to the 14.99 p/m package, but can't give me any introductory offers, and I have to start a new 18 month contract. This comes to 269 for the 18 months.

I don't want to downgrade, and have no success with the sync limiting to only save 1.67 per month. If the sync limit works, I've no problem downgrading, and trying to force my interleaving off.

So, has it been successful on the most part? Do we know any other people who have tried and failed?
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xreyuk

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Re: 80/20 to 40/20 with Plusnet
« Reply #26 on: July 22, 2014, 11:00:28 AM »

I've decided to delay this for now. Looking at my stats, my max attainable upload has been dropping and dropping (I think as more people are coming on the cab, I saw them doing work the other day) and if I resync, I stand to lose 2-3Mbps of speed.

I'll update if I do bother doing this though :)
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NewtronStar

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Re: 80/20 to 40/20 with Plusnet
« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2014, 12:31:09 AM »


I don't want to downgrade, and have no success with the sync limiting to only save 1.67 per month. If the sync limit works, I've no problem downgrading, and trying to force my interleaving off.

So, has it been successful on the most part? Do we know any other people who have tried and failed?

I have not tried it myself as my Download Speed is more important than being on a non-interleaved, the reason being is my DS sync is 29982 kbps and the SNRM is very variable over a 24 hour period and changeable over 12 months.

All I can say if you can get the HG612 to sync lower by turning it off and turn it on when the attainable rate is at its lowest point this should give you a slight increase in SNRM with less error counts, but you need to get the DLM to see this ON/OFF as a Retrain Reason 0 for it stick at those settings.
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xreyuk

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Re: 80/20 to 40/20 with Plusnet
« Reply #28 on: September 09, 2014, 11:23:49 PM »

So, after waiting to see if DLM would touch my line, I grew impatient, and also wanted to experiment a little.

I used the xdslcmd configure -maxDataRate command and it worked fine. However, since I've done it my error counts have literally gone through the roof and I don't know why.

Could just be coincidence but my SNRM went from 6dB to 7.9dB, so it should be more stable, but the error counts haven't just jumped a little, they've over tripled.

Any idea why?
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