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Author Topic: question for SFI out there or frames engineers  (Read 3006 times)

rico45

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question for SFI out there or frames engineers
« on: June 01, 2014, 12:17:36 PM »

I work for an isp as second tier .have noticed lately on a lot of upstream connections this is set at 2560kbps when the max should be 1200kbps if your next door to the exchange , this causes intermittency but if reset this goes back to the usual 800 or so depending on the distance ,then 2/2 days later returns to 2560kbps even if DLM was not started ,even though DLM will start automatically after 2weeks if not resumed.any ideas?  would this profile be a fibre one?  :baby:
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loonylion

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Re: question for SFI out there or frames engineers
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2014, 12:27:49 PM »

no, 2.5mbps is ADSL2+ Annex M (enhanced upload).
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rico45

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Re: question for SFI out there or frames engineers
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2014, 04:04:23 PM »

when you say enhanced upload is this a new thing lately? or can you give me more information , pardon my knowledge base buddy
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loonylion

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Re: question for SFI out there or frames engineers
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2014, 04:31:16 PM »

when you say enhanced upload is this a new thing lately? or can you give me more information , pardon my knowledge base buddy

Not new as such, it's an optional extension to the ADSL2+ spec that can be implemented by ISPs. Basically it reallocates some of the downstream tones to upstream, in order to provide better upload speeds (up to 2.5mbit, as opposed to up to 1.3mbit on standard ADSL2+) It can be enabled per subscriber.
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Black Sheep

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Re: question for SFI out there or frames engineers
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2014, 04:37:54 PM »

Well, you learn something new every day. I wasn't aware of that, cheers for sharing Loony.  :)
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kitz

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Re: question for SFI out there or frames engineers
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2014, 05:47:32 PM »

Ive had Annex_M adsl2+ since 2008.  Attached is one of my first syncs at 24Mb down 2.7Mb up.

Back then I was first on the Be* MSAN so no crosstalk... over the years it declined to more like 21Mb/2.6Mb especially when O2 started putting their users on the MSAN too.

Its only within the past few years (2010?) that BTw have made it available on their 21CN MSANs, but some of LLU ISPs have been doing so for much longer.
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c6em

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Re: question for SFI out there or frames engineers
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2014, 06:16:44 PM »

As it re-allocates the normally most heavily bit-loaded lower frequency download spectrum tones to the upload, Annex M is only really suitable for really short lines.

Longer lines will suffer VERY adversely from implementing Annex M as the remaining tones left to carry the download simply cannot manage - so the DL sync collapses significantly.

I recall seeing somewhere that any line with a normal sync below about 17Mbps is not really suitable for Annex M unless there is some overriding reason why they want a high upload and don't give a **** about the download.
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Black Sheep

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Re: question for SFI out there or frames engineers
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2014, 06:47:38 PM »

What's amazing me is, in all the years I've been Broadband faulting, I've never ever seen this situation ?? I'm glad I've been made aware of this though, as 'Sods Law' states my first job tomorrow will be one of these and I'd be trying to get a new DSL Port issued thinking it was faulty.  ;D :graduate: ;D
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kitz

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Re: question for SFI out there or frames engineers
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2014, 07:41:21 PM »

It may be that you seldom see it for several reasons



1) Line condition
Its usually its only the good lines that opt for annex-m, after considering the downstream/upstream trade-off.   
Be wouldnt let you have annex-m until they knew that the line could handle it.  iirc it was something like 40-45dB atten when it was considered viable.
Good & short adsl2+ lines are far less likely to have line faults and in need of BT engineers.  In over 10yrs of adsl, last year was the first time I had to have engineer visits. 

2) Cost

With Be it wasnt that much more £ for annex-m.  In fact if you were on Be Pro it was included in the cost.  It was a no brainer for me to go to Be where I could get 24/2.6Mbps @ £22 pm, when I was paying something like £21.99 for 8Mb adslmax + £5 for maxpremium.

BTr originally only rolled it out to their business customers and at rather a large premium cost.  Even though it is now available to consumers, its still a hefty extra which your average joe bloggs may not feel is worth it.  I dont know how much BT are charging for it, but iirc its an additional £10+VAT at Plusnet.

3) Public awareness

Its usually only the more techie users who are aware of it,  average Joe Bloggs who wants a dsl connection for £6 just wouldnt be interested in paying upwards of £10 more to swap some downstream for upstream.  Those that did want it usually ended up at Be...  and lets be honest which 'man in the street' ever really heard of them?  It may be a wee bit more popular on now on BTw systems,  as Ive seen a few ex-Be members having to stump up extra for the BTw version, rather than go with Sky.

 
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Black Sheep

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Re: question for SFI out there or frames engineers
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2014, 08:05:27 PM »

Thanks for that in-depth reply, Kitz. The curve continues .....  :graduate: ;D
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burakkucat

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Re: question for SFI out there or frames engineers
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2014, 08:57:07 PM »

. . . hopefully upwards and not downwards, into oblivion.  ;)
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Black Sheep

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Re: question for SFI out there or frames engineers
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2014, 09:41:21 PM »

Ha ha ...... it can only be upwards on here.  ;)  ;D ;D
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