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Author Topic: ZyXEL VMG8324-B10A Firmware  (Read 309784 times)

j0hn

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Re: ZyXEL VMG8324-B10A Firmware
« Reply #885 on: January 07, 2019, 11:23:21 AM »

It's very detailed in this thread
https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=21273.0

Zyxel provide everything needed to build the firmware.
They tell you which OS it needs built on, for example Ubuntu 10.04.
Fire up a quick VM with that and away you go.

The 1500 MTU patch was discovered by OliPro on Github.
https://github.com/Olipro/VMG1312-B10A

Just a couple lines of code need changed slightly, which is all described on the Github page and the forum thread above.

Would be much easier if Zyxel just enabled this on all their modems. I can't see any unwanted consequences.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2019, 11:25:40 AM by j0hn »
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Plusnet FTTC 80/20 -  ECI now Huawei cab
retx low @ 3dB target SNRM
Zyxel VMG1312-B10A bridged with 1508 MTU + Asus RT-AC68U running Asuswrt-Merlin

snadge

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Re: ZyXEL VMG8324-B10A Firmware
« Reply #886 on: January 07, 2019, 01:39:59 PM »

is MTU of 1500 better than 1492 on VDSL?

- can you downgrade firmwares if a new one isnt working well? I know some devices only allow upgrades and wont allow you to downgrade
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Zyxel VMG8924-B10A <-> PlusNET <-> Eci DSLAM
Sync: 79,000k <-> Atten: 14.2db <-> Snr: 6dB <-> Mode: FastPath

Jacko

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Re: ZyXEL VMG8324-B10A Firmware
« Reply #887 on: January 07, 2019, 01:43:50 PM »

@Snadge, yes, you can downgrade the firmware. I've done it a few times in the past. You can sometimes run into issues if the currently-applied configuration contains items that are unknown in earlier firmwares, but in my experience this is quite rare, and/or those items can usually be removed with a bit of judicious editing of a saved config-file in a text-editor. They're only XML files after all.
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snadge

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Re: ZyXEL VMG8324-B10A Firmware
« Reply #888 on: January 07, 2019, 01:44:32 PM »

@Snadge, yes, you can downgrade the firmware. I've done it a few times in the past. You can sometimes run into issues if the currently-applied configuration contains items that are unknown in earlier firmwares, but in my experience this is quite rare, and/or those items can usually be removed with a bit of judicious editing of a saved config-file in a text-editor. They're only XML files after all.

thanks
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Sync: 79,000k <-> Atten: 14.2db <-> Snr: 6dB <-> Mode: FastPath

Jacko

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Re: ZyXEL VMG8324-B10A Firmware
« Reply #889 on: January 07, 2019, 02:17:00 PM »

is MTU of 1500 better than 1492 on VDSL?

Also, @Snadge, I highly doubt you'll be able to set an MTU greater than 1492 on a VDSL modem. My VMG-8924 actively limits the max MTU input to 1492 on my VDSL connection settings page - presumably that's a factor of it being PPPoE. The PPPoE transport method consumes 8 bytes of the theoretical maximum-sized IP packet (1500 bytes) in the form of its header atop the IP data, which is where the 1492 limit comes from (1500-8=1492).

Even if you are able to set it as high as 1500, I doubt very much if it would help. All packets would simply become fragmented, and the resulting overhead would make any advantage of increase instantly become a disadvantage.

You could still try though, and experiment. Use the 'do-not-fragment' ping size test (see http://www.dslreports.com/faq/695) to see what happens, with an MTU set on the router at 1500. I'd wager that if PPPoE is in use, the largest ping data length you'll be able to set without fragmentation appearing is 1464 bytes (which with 28 added for the ICMP Ping Echo Request header overhead, and 8 more for the PPPoE header, adds up to 1500). That would imply the upstream is ignoring your 1500 and giving you 1492 before fragmenting anyway, so 1492 is your limit on the router and the LAN.

If you get as high as 1472 before ping fragmentation, then it would indicate the extra 8-byte PPPoE header is not in use, so you could go the whole hog and set 1500 as your site's MTU. But I doubt that will be the outcome with VDSL, to be honest. Do let us know if it is!
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snadge

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Re: ZyXEL VMG8324-B10A Firmware
« Reply #890 on: January 07, 2019, 02:21:40 PM »

thanks for the info

does changing the MTU require a re-sync? does doesn't it... maybe I will try it later
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Zyxel VMG8924-B10A <-> PlusNET <-> Eci DSLAM
Sync: 79,000k <-> Atten: 14.2db <-> Snr: 6dB <-> Mode: FastPath

j0hn

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Re: ZyXEL VMG8324-B10A Firmware
« Reply #891 on: January 07, 2019, 02:48:38 PM »

Also, @Snadge, I highly doubt you'll be able to set an MTU greater than 1492 on a VDSL modem. My VMG-8924 actively limits the max MTU input to 1492 on my VDSL connection settings page - presumably that's a factor of it being PPPoE. The PPPoE transport method consumes 8 bytes of the theoretical maximum-sized IP packet (1500 bytes) in the form of its header atop the IP data, which is where the 1492 limit comes from (1500-8=1492).

Even if you are able to set it as high as 1500, I doubt very much if it would help. All packets would simply become fragmented, and the resulting overhead would make any advantage of increase instantly become a disadvantage.

Couldn't be further from the truth.

For starters not all VDSL2 connections use PPP.

Sky and Talktalk use IPoE.
No wasted 8 bytes so 1500 MTU works perfect.

More to the point though the OpenReach NGA network fully supports RFC 4638.
This allows 1500 MTU with PPP on compatible hardware (1500 + 8 used by PPP).

The Huawei HG612 supports this out of the box.
We can modify most Zyxel devices to do the same.
https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,21273.0.html
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Plusnet FTTC 80/20 -  ECI now Huawei cab
retx low @ 3dB target SNRM
Zyxel VMG1312-B10A bridged with 1508 MTU + Asus RT-AC68U running Asuswrt-Merlin

johnson

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Re: ZyXEL VMG8324-B10A Firmware
« Reply #892 on: January 07, 2019, 02:50:47 PM »

@Jacko - for better or worse, we have been down this road and have firmware that allows it on VMG1312/VMG8x24, in fact, thats what the previous few posts above yours are discussing.

See:
https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,21273.0.html

@snadge - no point trying it unless you are running a modified firmware that supports it, again I'd refer you to the above thread.

edit: j0hn beat me to it!
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snadge

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Re: ZyXEL VMG8324-B10A Firmware
« Reply #893 on: January 07, 2019, 02:53:27 PM »

i just run TCP Optimizer's MTU test and done it manually and the results are 1492 is my max MTU, Im on Plusnet 80MB with a BCM63168 chipset connecting to a Lantiq ECI DSLAM - I will have a look at the thread, cheers

will 1500 MTU be better?
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Zyxel VMG8924-B10A <-> PlusNET <-> Eci DSLAM
Sync: 79,000k <-> Atten: 14.2db <-> Snr: 6dB <-> Mode: FastPath

j0hn

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Re: ZyXEL VMG8324-B10A Firmware
« Reply #894 on: January 07, 2019, 02:55:49 PM »

That thread is specifically for those using the device in bridge mode with a separate router.

Though there is a command listed on there that enables it for devices used as a combo modem/router.
It needs the command set every PPP session or every reboot (can't remember which).
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Plusnet FTTC 80/20 -  ECI now Huawei cab
retx low @ 3dB target SNRM
Zyxel VMG1312-B10A bridged with 1508 MTU + Asus RT-AC68U running Asuswrt-Merlin

snadge

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Re: ZyXEL VMG8324-B10A Firmware
« Reply #895 on: January 07, 2019, 02:56:51 PM »

hmm every re-sync? will i see any benefits using 1500 MTU...?
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Sync: 79,000k <-> Atten: 14.2db <-> Snr: 6dB <-> Mode: FastPath

j0hn

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Re: ZyXEL VMG8324-B10A Firmware
« Reply #896 on: January 07, 2019, 03:02:02 PM »

Packets can be 1500 bytes instead of 1492.
Work out the percentage improvement and device if it's worth the trouble to you.

There's a benefit, wether it is worth it or not is subjective.
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Plusnet FTTC 80/20 -  ECI now Huawei cab
retx low @ 3dB target SNRM
Zyxel VMG1312-B10A bridged with 1508 MTU + Asus RT-AC68U running Asuswrt-Merlin

johnson

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Re: ZyXEL VMG8324-B10A Firmware
« Reply #897 on: January 07, 2019, 03:03:23 PM »

Ah of course j0hn is right... I forgot about people using the devices as full routers!

Yes at the very least after every reboot of the modem, but more than likely after each new PPP session is brought up.

Efforts were made to get the modem in router mode to bring the connection up with the right MTU but I didnt get anywhere.

Its a couple of commands at any point after a sync, they do not cause a resync so its up to you where you can be bothered to do so.
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Jacko

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Re: ZyXEL VMG8324-B10A Firmware
« Reply #898 on: January 07, 2019, 04:19:25 PM »

Couldn't be further from the truth.

Bit OTT, if you don't mind me saying. My comment was perfectly legit - I even made mention of the fact that the limiting factor was PPPoE, and implied that it may not be in use in Snadge's case, and for him to test. No need to be **quite** so dismissive of the whole piece, just because I have not covered every single possible variation in detail...

I was not aware of the RFC you mentioned, and will check it out - but it still doesn't render everything I said totally valueless.

With respect, maybe you could be a little less abrasive in your contradictions of people who are only trying to help.
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j0hn

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Re: ZyXEL VMG8324-B10A Firmware
« Reply #899 on: January 07, 2019, 05:45:30 PM »

I corrected your inaccuracy.
I gave a detailed reason why, named the relevant RFC and provided a link to a thread covering this in lots of detail for the zyxel decides.

Quote
just because I have not covered every single possible variation in detail...

My point was the only variation you did describe isn't the limiting factor.
Anyone on OpenReach NGA (FTTP, FTTC, G.Farce, likely other products) can use 1500 MTU with PPPoE.
The customers hardware being the only limiting factor. In many cases the hardware supports it but just isn't supported by the firmware.

Quote
With respect, maybe you could be a little less abrasive in your contradictions of people who are only trying to help.

I disagree, and that wasn't my intention.
This is by far the most posted on/viewed Zyxel thread on these forums.
My intention was only to correct any inaccuracies.

I usually thank people who correct me, take the time to educate me on why, and tell me my hardware can do what I thought it couldn't.

Oh, and welcome to the forum    ;)
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Plusnet FTTC 80/20 -  ECI now Huawei cab
retx low @ 3dB target SNRM
Zyxel VMG1312-B10A bridged with 1508 MTU + Asus RT-AC68U running Asuswrt-Merlin
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