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[Ragnarok]

Like many FTTC lines back in august 2013 i started off with full speed no FEC, IMP or interleaving and it gentilly slowed over time overing around 72-76 mbps and for interleaving and the dreaded FEC/INP. Not helped by a impulse noise coming from next door on the same telephone pole creating noise that disappears at night and when they are all out in the day. It's to be expected I guess.

Well Neighbour and good friends second door away on the same telephone pole got FTTC today.

I know many people around here talk about their lines getting smashed but... Result is my downstream down by 17ish Mbps upstream down by 500Kbps

And my modem struggled to hold on to my old speed 728000 kbps for dear life at times with an overall 0.4db SNR margin, errors and all.

Unfortunately later on today I was putting in my nice new unlocked ECI /r modem to help with the interleaving and maybe help get that reduced. It's in now so no more graphing for now. ,  The graphs capturing the SNR drop and speed drop are below, pretty dramatic for a final day capturing stats with DSLstats!!!

Surely is a case where vectoring could help big time, it's here, considering the cause of the speed drop to the very 10 minutes my neighbours modem came to life mine would struggle to hold on and settle about 17mbps slower. It's not like i was nasty or anything. I helped him get all his stuff connected up to his HH5 wireless, fitted a nice openreach VDSL filter to his master socket because BT don't supply them on self installs.


Such is life 

[Chrysalis]

I had 2 of these instances.

a week or 2 after install (when I unlocked modem) my attainable was 110 down 36 up.
a week after that it was 90 down 36 up.
a week after that it was approx 73 down and 27-29 up.

cant remember exact figures now.

openreach are defenitly aware, plusnet pasted me a reason for refusal from openreach to pair swap which was that if my pair got swapped other lines "would" detoriate as a result.

we probably not going to see any consistency until vectoring is deployed whenever that may be (other countries rolling it out).  Until then its luck of the draw with huge swings of variability on crosstalk levels.

The last engineer that visited me was telling me about another guy he visited complaining about speeds plummeting and begging for a pair swap, he told me he refused it, like he refused mine.

My line is still holding on a 4db snrm giving me 75mbit sync so at the moment I do have almost full throughput.

[PhilipD]

Hi

The big drops are when someone signs up that is in a pair close to yours in the binder and that pair then happens to run with yours almost to the door or pole.  Smaller incremental drops are new customers that are connected but then branch off quite soon in a different direction near the cab, so cross talk only has opportunity over a very short distance.  Don't recommend to your neighbours to get FTTC 

A pair swap may not help as you may still not be that fair away from the neighbours pair (could put you closer) or the improvement may be short lived when another neighbour connects.

VDSL like ADSL is such a hack it causes so many problems, and vectoring will be another hack on top, it will probably work for most but it might only take a neighbour picking up a new VDSL router cheap off Ebay that doesn't support vectoring or has a bug in the way it does and everything goes south again. 

Regards

Phil

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And my modem struggled to hold on to my old speed 728000 kbps for dear life at times with an overall 0.4db SNR margin, errors and all.

I can see why it struggled at that sync speed 

[Ragnarok]

I wonder if DLM would of let that go, unfortunately I Intervened. The Errors and retransmits probably slowed it down a fair bit anyway.

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Sorry i meant due to the 728mb sync speed

[kitz]

Ouch.   

I saw mine drop a straight 2dB a couple of weeks ago, and straight away I thought, there goes another one added on the cab.
Neither of my immediate neighbours have fttc, and afaik none of those on the same JB do....  if thats the result I hope they dont 

[les-70]

   I have had the same size drop twice,    both with nearby properties.  At times they both turn on and off at night so changes of up to -6db snr can hit me each morning.

[Ragnarok]

And only compounded by http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=12591.0

I guess that means no vectoring on most current ECI cabs, without an all out replacment. Ouch.

[burakkucat]

Cabinets now being installed, which contain Huawei equipment, are known to be equipped with the MA5603T MSAN rather than the earlier MA5616 MSAN.

I understand that the MA5603T can be configured for vectoring by means of a simple card swap.

[kitz]

I could be wrong but isnt the MA5603T the older model?
According to this its now on its end of life?

http://www.huawei.com/en/ProductsLifecycle/BroadbandAccessProducts/FTTXProducts/hw-116736.htm

>> I understand that the MA5603T can be configured for vectoring by means of a simple card swap.

When I tried to do some digging last year, it was my understanding that iirc the MA5616s needed a new module..   its late and I have to be up early so I really should be heading for bed..  I tried to do a quick check..  and got distracted as I found something that seemed to indicate  the following

BT cabs at March 2013

Huawei MA5616T cabs - 3,637
ECI M41 cabs - 7,732
Huawei MA5603T - 12,995

I really cannot spend any more time at the PC tonight though.

[Chrysalis]

us ECI customers dont care how easy it is to enable huawei.  I think its a major issue not been addressed by any media or isp's that potentially ECI is going to be skipped over.

--edit--

are BT using the V800R006, its that last revision thats end of life.

[simon194]

I think I was quite lucky because I only saw a 5Mbps drop when my neighbours had fibre installed a few weeks ago but then last week it all went pear-shaped.

I was on the phone and the line started crackling and then went dead for a few seconds and then crackled back to life. The modem resynced but not at the usual ~72 Mbps but a shade under 50 Mbps. Got on to Sky who did all te usual and didn't find a fault on the line which I was expecting but agreed it was a big drop in speed and said it would be passed on to Openreach. Got a call from Sky on Tuesday to say Openreach had said the line was working within the expected limits and that was that.

The last time I looked at the BT Wholesale address checker, which was a few months ago, I remember the lower speed for an impacted line was 59Mbps but when I looked on Tuesday it had been revised to 47.3 Mbps. It's all a bit annoying as my neighbours line is still syncing at ~77 Mbps.

[Chrysalis]

yeah in most forms of business you cant get away with that kind of performance differential.

at least with adsl the variability on a street I would expect to have much less variance, so people accept it easier as their neighbours (as you said) suffer the same.  But 10s of mbit difference from one house to the next is crazy stuff.  Very likely you could get your performance back from a pair swap but if that was done then someone else would probably get a nosedive, its robbing pete to pay paul, thats why openreach told plusnet (my isp) that they wont pair swap my line as they openly admit other lines will suffer.  That doesnt make me happy of course as thats saying to me those other lines mean more than my line.

My neighbour (who is in my building) still has an attainable 20mbit higher than me.

These visiting engineers also must be thick skinned, they will know in their head from other properties they have visited that other people have higher speeds, but they will betray their employer if they said that to the end user, instead they have to say its within spec. (unless of course they do find a fault).

What seems unusual in your story tho is you momentarily lost voice services, I wonder if that would be caused by an engineer testing if your pair is live?  I wouldnt expect voice services to be affected by increased FTTC crosstalk.  The voice cutoff suggests your line got fiddled with.

[Chrysalis]

well dave from plusnet posted today the ECI kit can support vectoring, obviously I dont know if he is right, how he got his information, but its on the plusnet forums.